Loxxrider's 200 20v Revver: See you on "The Project Pad"

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:40 am

Lol yes I know I'm making it a little more difficult...but its because I want to go with the Koni race struts because they have a shorter shock body and therefore will not bottom out when you are really low.

Thats the main problem. I just want to do this setup and then be done with it. Thats why I usually go all out. That nets me the result I want. I think I'm going to try and call Koni and see if they are able to look up the regular body shocks for the front and back and then find a way to get the race versions in that spec.

If they can't then it seems that all me other options are just 1" shorter than stock and then I might as well just go with the cheaper bilstein sports

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:07 am

OK, got it sorta straightened out. Looks like I cant use the koni race ones because they only have 45.5mm OD. The strut used for the front strut housings on the 200 is 47.5mm OD.

Still want to see if there are other options for shorter shock bodies

Justin517 · Post by **Justin517** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:04 am

as far as the front goes...

are the Koni's an inverted design like the bilsteins? I dont think they are.

so you plan on shortening your strut housing? IE: cut a chunk out and re-weld? because if you dont its just going to rattle up and down in the housing if you got a shorter Koni, and even if you spaced it inside the housing... the top of the housing will still be in the same place and get really close to the strut mount if you go super low, making your travel very little, negating the use of a shorter insert.

I assume you want to lower it alot without having 0 suspension travel? the only way I could think of doing that would be to either somehow move the hub housing up (think drop spindles for S10s) but then you run into the bottom of the strut tube directly above the outer CV, and besides that would be a total pain in the ass... complete custom strut housing. Or you could extend the top of the strut tower which is sorta major surgery and you start to run out of hood clearance too...

with the spring rates you are going with, I personally would just go for custom valved bilsteins (because it doesnt seem like you can get custom koni's unless you go for the race ones, which you said yourself wont fit) and not go too crazy slammed so you still have some travel. With the rates you will be running the thing could sit higher than stock and still handle extremely well...

hypothetical · Post by **hypothetical** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:49 am

Whatever you do Chris get it right. Bilsteins really are a more superior design for heavier cars. I run Konis on the rabbit but that only weighs 1950 with my fat ass in it. I have always liked the Bilstein design especially on a Macpherson design because of all the lateral forces working on the strut tower the inverted design is simply stronger.

I just got hold of my old 1991 90CS 20V Quattro so I will be doing something similar soon. :-D

nuugen · Post by **nuugen** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:21 pm

Same here with the Bilsteins, use the Sports with the shorter pistons, you will be able to lower it plenty and still have decent travel. The inverted monotube design with internal bump stops really soaks up uneven terrain, more than you would think...No I don't work for Bilstein LOL, but I have had almost every shock on the market but I came back and settled all of my cars on Billies...Also a 6" spring is a must in the front, I tried an 8", rolled the collars all the way down, then I removed the collars completely and put the spring right on the lower perch, and it still had a 2 finger gap!!
My front collars were 2.5" od and the rears were 2"..

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:26 pm

Hmmm well you know where to get all of the infos if/when you need it lol.

If I do go with a shorter strut then yes, I do plan on shortening the strut housing. Seems like the only logical thing to do. That would allow for enough travel.

There was some talk of getting shorter bodied bilsteins in the T44 strut insert thread...that would pretty much mean ordering inserts for a different car altogether. That definitely seems like the best option, but its a matter of getting the measurements, etc.

I feel like an idiot talking about simple suspension stuff so much, but I just want to get it right and maybe strive for a little better of a setup n what most T44 owners usually end up with.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:28 pm

nuugen wrote:Same here with the Bilsteins, use the Sports with the shorter pistons, you will be able to lower it plenty and still have decent travel. The inverted monotube design with internal bump stops really soaks up uneven terrain, more than you would think...No I don't work for Bilstein LOL, but I have had almost every shock on the market but I came back and settled all of my cars on Billies...Also a 6" spring is a must in the front, I tried an 8", rolled the collars all the way down, then I removed the collars completely and put the spring right on the lower perch, and it still had a 2 finger gap!!
My front collars were 2.5" od and the rears were 2"..

Yeah, I remember you telling me to go Bilstein from day one.

The bilstein sports you are talking about (shorter piston) are not different than the regular bilstein sports you can get anywhere right?

I may just do that for the sake not stressing over all of this BS lol

I want to be able to slam on its nuts for shows, but I can get over it

Justin517 · Post by **Justin517** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:39 pm

the bilstein sports have a shorter body than the normal bilstein... but it doesnt seem like it.

if you take the yellow part... what looks like the body... of a bilstein off, you get this:

the actual shock rod is at the bottom, this design allows them to make the shock "shorter" while keeping the insert size the same.

This is what it looks like together:

check this out:
http://driftninjaz.com/blogthis/?p=7

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:42 pm

Justin517 wrote:the bilstein sports have a shorter body than the normal bilstein... but it doesnt seem like it.

if you take the yellow part... what looks like the body... of a bilstein off, you get this:

the actual shock rod is at the bottom, this design allows them to make the shock "shorter" while keeping the insert size the same.

Ah I get it now. When I talked to the guy at Bilstein, he sure made that unclear. He said the shock body is not shorter than the stock ones. I guess technically he was correct, but not with respect to what my question was really getting at.

You guys are freakin awesome. If/when I finally get out to a show, beers are on me!!!

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:26 am

So I'm pretty set on just getting bilstein sports now.

I can't really wait to order the sleeves until after I get the struts, so can anyone give me an OD measurement of the rear bilstein sports?

I have a choice between 1-7/8 and 1-5/8 inches for the sleeves

nuugen · Post by **nuugen** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:03 pm

I will get them for you tomorrow, as i will have to pull one off to measure it.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:47 am

Wow thank you!!!!!!!!

nuugen · Post by **nuugen** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:56 pm

Hey loxx, the front sleeves are 2-3/8" OD (roughly 2" ID). The front sleeves need to be under 4" length as well, so you can put the strut lockring back on---if you can't get any that short, simply cut them down to fit..
The rear Sport shock measures just under 1-7/8" OD..It was too late to pull a rear shock so I crawled under and mic'd the body. I personally have a 2" ID (same as the front) on mine, with a larger c-clip in the groove on the Bilstein(I picked up some c-clips that were wider so I would feel comfortable with all that weight I was going to place upon it), and used the rubber o-rings in the tops of the sleeves to take up the slack(and to keep crud out)..This is because the Billie has an external ridge halfway down the shock body that may interfere with a snug-fitting 1-7/8 collar. I wouldn't know, because I simply ordered 2" to begin with..Someone else may have gotten the 1-7/8 to go right on..

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loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:09 pm

nuugen wrote:Hey loxx, the front sleeves are 2-3/8" OD (roughly 2" ID). The front sleeves need to be under 4" length as well, so you can put the strut lockring back on---if you can't get any that short, simply cut them down to fit..
The rear Sport shock measures just under 1-7/8" OD..It was too late to pull a rear shock so I crawled under and mic'd the body. I personally have a 2" ID (same as the front) on mine, with a larger c-clip in the groove on the Bilstein(I picked up some c-clips that were wider so I would feel comfortable with all that weight I was going to place upon it), and used the rubber o-rings in the tops of the sleeves to take up the slack(and to keep crud out)..This is because the Billie has an external ridge halfway down the shock body that may interfere with a snug-fitting 1-7/8 collar. I wouldn't know, because I simply ordered 2" to begin with..Someone else may have gotten the 1-7/8 to go right on..

You are the effing man! Seriously, thank you so much for doing this. Its not necessary, but very, very appreciated!

That clears almost everything up.

So I misunderstood the sleeves on that site a little bit. The fronts they make for the strut housings are just over 2" like you said. The 1-7/8 are for struts that are roughly 1-7/8 OD I guess. So the ID on the sleeves is actually 1.980". Seems like that should work very well other than the fact that I will have to cut them shorter by an inch.

I'm just curious about the rear sleeve. If its not welded on (just rests on the c-clip) and its sort of a free fit then how does it not wobble around a little? Is it just that it is such a small amount that it doesn't matter?

Again, thanks a LOT. I couldn't have figured this all out without you and a few others.

my2000apb · Post by **my2000apb** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:29 am

wow what a nice guy. loxx u just got hooked up bigtime

Justin517 · Post by **Justin517** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:13 am

the rear sleeve should use small set-screws to keep it centered and prevent wobbling.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:45 am

oh, trust me I know I got hooked up. I wont forget it!

Thanks again for all the awesome infos guys.

All I have to do now is order. Looks like I have to get that going soon in order to have it all by the weekend I want to do it (13th of nov). Might have to sell a little stock!

nuugen · Post by **nuugen** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:38 am

It doesn't wobble at all with all that 200 20v mass sitting on top of it LOL..You can also get rubber o-rings to fit inside the sleeve to firm it up if that is a concern. I am going to post a pic later of the snap-rings that I used in place of the wimpy-looking oem units..
I have only seen one set of coilover sleeves that used the small set screws to hold them steady, they froze in place even with antiseize and had to be air-chiseled off..YMMV..However I WOULD recommend copious amounts of antiseize on the insides of the sleeves, I have seen those freeze to the strut housings even without set screws and the aforementioned chisel method was the only way to get them off

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:39 am

anyone have any last words on where to get the bilsteins for the cheapest?

I have seen $500 just about everywhere so far.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:43 am

nuugen wrote:It doesn't wobble at all with all that 200 20v mass sitting on top of it LOL..You can also get rubber o-rings to fit inside the sleeve to firm it up if that is a concern. I am going to post a pic later of the snap-rings that I used in place of the wimpy-looking oem units..
I have only seen one set of coilover sleeves that used the small set screws to hold them steady, they froze in place even with antiseize and had to be air-chiseled off..YMMV..However I WOULD recommend copious amounts of antiseize on the insides of the sleeves, I have seen those freeze to the strut housings even without set screws and the aforementioned chisel method was the only way to get them off

Yes, I forgot to ask about the snap-rings. Would definitely like to get a beefier set.

Good thing the sleeves are cheap and shouldn't have to be moved ever besides adjusting the collar. Would definitely also like to see how you did the o-rings. I'm not really concerned though. Fat ass car isn't going to let them go anywhere from what it sounds like lol. Seems like greasing the insides of the sleeves is a good idea? Then its just a matter of trying to keep crap out of the sleeve threads and getting them lubed before adjusting.

Put a little stock up to be sold, so hopefully it will sell by the end of the day and then I can order....muahahahah

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:28 am

just to be clear...I am pretty sure what I am looking at here is a lower perch which is held up by a snap ring up in there no ?

**Edit**
ummmm I dont know what the heck happened with the picture I linked from audifans lol nevermind!

nuugen · Post by **nuugen** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:31 am

Sorry I worked until @ 12:30 so I didn't get a pic..i will grab one today..

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:36 am

No problem!

I'm going out to figure out why my speaker is rattling like a beyotch.

Oh, I also got a really cool present in the mail today. I'll post it up when I get a chance.

Justin517 · Post by **Justin517** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:21 am

loxxrider wrote:anyone have any last words on where to get the bilsteins for the cheapest?

I have seen $500 just about everywhere so far.

hen I bought mine 5 months ago shox.com was the cheapest, same with the ones for my MKII a lil over ayear ago.

for my A4 AWE's holiday sale was the best but I doubt they stock stuff for our cars.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:31 am

Sweet, I already have my order all set to go on shox.com Just need to get the money transferred like now.

regarding the speaker...this is pretty interesting:

Post from over on Phoenixphorum.com (a phoenix gold enthusiast forum)

ok so I found out what the problem was. I would have never guessed.

I took the speaker out and the wiring was better than I thought. It was too tight to allow the wire to tap on the back of the cone. So I decided to play the speaker in free air and almost instantly this happened.

The enclosure I made is pretty small for these speakers (too small in fact) due to space constraints, and they are sealed extremely well. Because the enclosures are so small, they allow an unusual amount of pressure to propagate inside of them. I guess that little cap was the weakest point in the system.

Rattling is gone with that cap out of the way lol. So I guess it was just loose before and kinda slapping the cone.

Thanks for all your help everyone! Please feel free to buy the subs as I dont need them. I really like my xs 8's in this car. Remember the price is OBO and I need money!