Loxxrider's 200 20v Revver: See you on "The Project Pad"

Mcstiff · Post by **Mcstiff** » Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:20 am

Because of altitude I want to run a larger core than normal; I am planning on more power in the future. That Ebay core does not look too bad (other than being slightly smaller).

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:29 am

Well the smaller treadstone is still efficient to 700+hp so it should be more than enough for you I'd think...unless you think you need to increase size that much? I don't feel like calculating the differences in air you'd need to move after this week lol. Anyway, my buddy made 610 or so on only 20psi on an intercooler very similar to the smaller Treadstone up there.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:36 pm

YESSSSSSSSSSSSS

I just scored a 12cm^2 housing

Muahahahah

and now I got the correct v-band and gasket included...go me! Now I wont have to wait until eternity for spool.

This puts intercooler purchase on hold until next month though.

If anyone wants to buy my corbeau to get the ball rolling let me know

Mcstiff · Post by **Mcstiff** » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:32 pm

loxxrider wrote:Well the smaller treadstone is still efficient to 700+hp so it should be more than enough for you I'd think...unless you think you need to increase size that much? I don't feel like calculating the differences in air you'd need to move after this week lol. Anyway, my buddy made 610 or so on only 20psi on an intercooler very similar to the smaller Treadstone up there.

Some things are difficult to calculate; to start the TC is working harder to move the same amount of air and there is ~18% less air touching the IC.

Look at Jim Green's Intercooler _HUGE_.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:42 pm

GOOD LORD!!!!!

I feel like that thing can't possibly be using much of the upper cooling area. Either way, thats gigantic. Never seen one that big lol.

I dont get how there is ~18% less air "touching" the IC though...I see how there is less oxygen in the air...but not less air really. I'd think you'd have the same cooling. I guess I'm overlooking something.

I'd rather just run meth all the time than fit an IC that size...or air to water. MUCH easier.

123quattro · Post by **123quattro** » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:50 pm

The air is less dense, so it has less cooling capacity. It's not less oxygen, it's less everything.

TheArchitect · Post by **TheArchitect** » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:00 pm

123quattro wrote:The air is less dense, so it has less cooling capacity. It's not less oxygen, it's less everything.

20.9% O2 of air to above 50,000 feet.

Higher altitude means less moles of O2 per Meter^3, but not less oxygen per se.

Mcstiff · Post by **Mcstiff** » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:09 pm

TheArchitect wrote:
123quattro wrote:The air is less dense, so it has less cooling capacity. It's not less oxygen, it's less everything.

20.9% O2 of air to above 50,000 feet.

Higher altitude means less moles of O2 per Meter^3, but not less oxygen per se.

Right, the mix is ~the same but the density is less. So your compressor has to work harder and your IC is less efficient.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:02 pm

ah ok I get it. Duh :bashtard:

glad I dont live in high altitudes

I got that idea from the mountain climbing shows where they are like yeah there is so much less oxygen in the air up here, you have to breathe harder, etc...

I took that to mean lower percent, not just less dense air in general. Should have thought about it a little. Sometimes my mind gets all jumbled like this. Especially after being bedridden sick all week. :(

Mcstiff · Post by **Mcstiff** » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:40 pm

loxxrider wrote:glad I dont live in high altitudes

It presents challenges; but I don't have to worry about hurricanes

Check out 1/4 mile times for Bandimere vs ROW

jcarrick · Post by **jcarrick** » Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:48 pm

Have you considered going with an AAN or 034 intake manifold and getting a "normal" intercooler?then your piping wouldn't be by the exhaust either

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:24 am

Nope, too much extra bs for me at the moment! I like it this way anyway...kinda unique

That would be a good option. I just dont feel like messing with throttle relocation, etc., etc.

Speaking of which...my throttle cam is cracking. Time for a new TB methinks. (dont want to waste money on 034 billet cam thing when that money will buy me a bigger tb)

...though I may have to buy one anyway since I dont have machine shop access right now for an adapter flange :(

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:10 pm

Also just scored adapters for the BBSs. I think its Bear's brother? thehomemade1 on vortex. Thanks!

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:45 pm

Progress is being made.

Got a 12cm^2 housing for the Holset in and fitted. Just need to weld the flapper shut when I install it. I even have a flange with a v-band provision but I'll probably just weld that right to the downpipe because I don't know the exact size of it and don't have a 2.5" one on hand to compare it to.

Its so much smaller than the 16cm^2 one that was on it though. If anyone wants the 16cm one please don't hesitate to contact me. This one is so nice...its hardly even got any surface rust on it. The 12cm one is nice too though. The 16cm would be perfect for a VRT or a M50 BMW motor or something.

Also, if anyone wants a Corbeau CR1 in black and gray suede mine is for sale. I just want extra money to finish this build up with!

and of course here are the adapters. Still haven't had the time to test fit yet. Looking forward to it. I just realized that I'll have 3 cars these wheels will work on lol. E36, the 200, and my mom's jetta since its 5x112. Her car is gold too so the gold centers would be perfect

oh and some partially green beer for St. Patty's day

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:12 pm

I also forgot to add that the misfire issue has not been solved :(

Car is misfiring just as bad even with the wires and plugs now that I've really had some time to test it. Next step is D585 coils (the ones with the heat sinks on them). They are supposed to be some of the strongest in the GM line.

nuugen · Post by **nuugen** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:10 pm

loxxrider wrote:Yeah...me too. They have always worked great at high boost, etc.

Everyone says these cars just dont like anything but bosch plugs

But what do you consider "high" boost?? I thought you were running ~17psi :? Or did you turn up the wick recently :wtf:

..
I would like to see if they hold up at higher boost levels---28-30 psi..Has anyone used them in that capacity? In my old setup I would spike 30 and drop to ~27, that was with the fdp's..I know they are not optimum for that level..I would like to hear other's experiences with the NGK at higher boost levels, as I do use them in my na cars and stock-ish turbo cars..javad apparently uses stock plugs for a 7a (F6DTC) in his high-boost motor...

jcarrick · Post by **jcarrick** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:20 pm

I used NGK iridium's in my 1993 S4 running around 20 PSI and they started to misfire after about three months. They would boost up to about 15-16 and then it would just start falling on its face. So i put the F5PDOR's back in and it totally fixed the problem. From what i am learning in school with German cars bosch plugs are the only way to go. NGK's are great on Japanese stuff, but for german cars they dont work so great... dont ask me why :?

Chris,
What are you doing with the holset as far as the N75 goes??

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:23 pm

nuugen wrote:
loxxrider wrote:Yeah...me too. They have always worked great at high boost, etc.

Everyone says these cars just dont like anything but bosch plugs

But what do you consider "high" boost?? I thought you were running ~17psi :? Or did you turn up the wick recently ..
I would like to see if they hold up at higher boost levels---28-30 psi..Has anyone used them in that capacity? In my old setup I would spike 30 and drop to ~27, that was with the fdp's..I know they are not optimum for that level..I would like to hear other's experiences with the NGK at higher boost levels, as I do use them in my na cars and stock-ish turbo cars..javad apparently uses stock plugs for a 7a (F6DTC) in his high-boost motor...

I was referring to my old 50 trim setup on my 1.8t. It was at about 22psi.

I did run about 20 in the audi for a while tho lol.

Pretty sure plenty of people have used BKR7's in the high 20's with success.

jcarrick wrote:Chris,
What are you doing with the holset as far as the N75 goes??

I'm using an external wastegate with it so I'll just run the n75 in the wastegate line and thats about it. Same as stock just with a different wastegate.

jcarrick · Post by **jcarrick** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:00 pm

Ah, gotcha. That makes sense. Also, why not just use the internal wastegate? Is this so you dont have to put a hole in the housing for the n75?

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:03 pm

Well for one thing, I don't have the actuator for this housing, for two, I spent a lot of time convincing 034 to make me a manifold with ext wg provisions, and three because its just simple and more reliable in my opinion (when you have an old turbo like this at least).

I dont see why you'd have to put a hole in the housing for any reason???

LowlyOilBurner · Post by **LowlyOilBurner** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:31 am

Compressor housing is what he's talking about, I'd guess. In any event, it takes like 15min to do that anyways.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:35 am

Oh I see. You can just put a nipple on the intercooler piping for boost reference instead. There is virtually no difference.

nuugen · Post by **nuugen** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:33 am

jcarrick wrote:I used NGK iridium's in my 1993 S4 running around 20 PSI and they started to misfire after about three months. They would boost up to about 15-16 and then it would just start falling on its face. So i put the F5PDOR's back in and it totally fixed the problem. From what i am learning in school with German cars bosch plugs are the only way to go. NGK's are great on Japanese stuff, but for german cars they dont work so great... dont ask me why :?

Well NGK's are fine, just not the Iridium...I tried the Iridium's too and they are fine for N/A, but not boosted..Same thing with the Platinum+4 Bosch, we found out pretty quickly not to use those in a forced induction engine when they first hit the market a few years ago! Most sites now have a disclaimer not to use them on boosted apps..

gvr4 · Post by **gvr4** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:58 pm

nuugen wrote:
jcarrick wrote:I used NGK iridium's in my 1993 S4 running around 20 PSI and they started to misfire after about three months. They would boost up to about 15-16 and then it would just start falling on its face. So i put the F5PDOR's back in and it totally fixed the problem. From what i am learning in school with German cars bosch plugs are the only way to go. NGK's are great on Japanese stuff, but for german cars they dont work so great... dont ask me why :?

Well NGK's are fine, just not the Iridium...I tried the Iridium's too and they are fine for N/A, but not boosted..Same thing with the Platinum+4 Bosch, we found out pretty quickly not to use those in a forced induction engine when they first hit the market a few years ago! Most sites now have a disclaimer not to use them on boosted apps..

Iridium plugs are fine to use in a boosted car. NGK,Denso are two of the best ones. Iridium's come stock in a evo from the factory so they are not for N/A cars. Iridium's are what all the high hp dsm and evo guys run. Thats 900+whp cars.

My I ask what you are all gapping your plugs at. You may just need to knock the gap down to help with a misfire under boost. You could just be blowing the flame out.

Factory gap on my plugs are between 27-32. That works good up to around 20psi. After that I end up having to knock them down to around 18-22 for 30+psi.

PRA4WX · Post by **PRA4WX** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:55 am

:stupid: I've started using Denso Iridiums in my boosted applications with good result.