Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

[audifreakjim]

Can't wait to hear this beast run!

[loxxrider]

Well Jimmy, that might be a little sooner due to some new developments. Mysteries have been solved, and I will give more details in the coming months. That's all I will say!

[chaloux]

Coming months!?

[loxxrider]

I'm not saying the car will be done in the coming months, just that there will be much more development with the engine soon! The head should be done in the next few weeks (just needs the valve seat cutting done and installation of the components), then it's on to other engine stuff.

Speaking of which... Oh Haaaaaaank? Mr. Jeff needs that diesel block sent over

[85oceanic]

Dude. I can't wait to see some video of this thing running. Definitely one of the best/most unique projects going on here!

[loxxrider]

Spoke to Jeff today and he is requesting the block and all dry sump parts. Marc will be sending the dry sump parts tomorrow. Hank needs to send the block

One interesting thing was this:

"Went to put head on flow bench and found an issue with the G D spark plug holes - all of them.

I had forgotten that when I got the head that the plugs all came out really hard with a lot of drag in the threads.
Didn't think much about it at the time. Anyway none of them wanted to accept the plugs cleanly so I obviously did not try to force them and ran a plug thread tap through them all.

It was really weird because they all pushed out a lot of shavings as the tap went through. Bottom line is they all accept the plugs cleanly now but I don't like the looseness I feel in the threads.

I would suggest that we install inserts in all of them so there will be no possibility of future issues that could cause the head to have to come off."


Well, at least I'll have strong spark plug holes now?




Should be a good year for progress

[PRY4SNO]

Inserts are a pretty good idea.

That's a known weak point from what I've read on QW.

[chaloux]

I'm sure Jeff will have you covered. We've had good luck with Timeserts

[loxxrider]

Had a pretty stimulating conversation with Jeff today. We talked turbos and fuel.

I'm still very undecided on what turbo to go with on this car. He is too. He's going to find out of there are any upcoming Borg products which might suit my needs if I'm patient enough... If not, then it's going to either be a big slow diesel borg with QSV, a fancy but expensive and might-blow-up Precision, or maybe even one of those new fangled Xona-rotors if they come out with something that flows more than 95 lb/min. Apparently precision has plenty of new stuff on the horizon too, so it'll be worth waiting for. I imagine turbo selection will be one of the last pieces to this puzzle.

Then we talked fuel. I've been thinking about this myself lately, and I'm not so sure anymore if E85 is going to be right for me. I have to worry about all of the problems with that goo stuff and the quality of the fuel itself, so that means buying it in drums is smart... but then if I crack open a drum and only use 10 gallons of it and then step away from it for 6 months or more, that fuel could be totally bad the next time I have to use it (due to its hygroscopic nature). So maybe I just need a pump gas tune and a race gas tune with separate fuel tanks or something. I'm not sure yet.

Finally, we discussed fuel injector choice. My intention is/was to go with 10 1300 cc injectors or thereabouts for use with E85, but Jeff is trying to persuade me to go with some Moran injectors built specifically for racing (and not modified). I will need to think about this a bit and do a bit of research. The reasoning is based on atomization though.

[PRY4SNO]

Talk to me about the Moran injectors vs. Genesis II, re: atomization.

And yes, turbo should be your last decision. Pick a power band, pick an average HP number and then find your turbo.

[loxxrider]

Talk to me about the Moran injectors vs. Genesis II, re: atomization.

I'm listening

[PRY4SNO]

Haha I was asking you. .. or what kind of data am I looking for? Scott at USRT sent me some info I could dig up...

[loxxrider]

Oh I see, haha. Well, I don't know a whole lot about the Genesis injectors. Gerner was referring to modified ev14s vs the Moran injectors which will flow as much but with better atomization (depending on the injector you're comparing to I guess). Take a look at the videos of them. They definitely make a nice pattern.

[All_Euro]

Snipped from a Vortex thread about E85 ruining Bosch injectors...

Scott@USRT

...I believe the best options on the market come from Moran Motorsports. Why would I share this information? -because it's solid truth... I know they work. I'd sell them, if VW guys weren't so damned cheap.

Edit: here's the source... http://forums.thecarlounge.com/showthre ... viewfull=1

[loxxrider]

Talked to my fuel injector expert buddy, and while he's biased I do trust him to give me solid information. His theories make sense though.

He dislikes the Moran injectors for street cars, and especially anything that isn't a 540 ci (ish) V8. The spray patterns on those injectors are way too wide for our ports and the droplet size is apparently actually much bigger than the droplet size a Bosch ev14 style pintle makes even without the atomization plate (which often gets removed when modifying the injectors).

Low pulse width stability on the Morans is apparently no match for the modern Boschs as well.

Finally, think about what happens to the fuel after it leaves the injector. It gets hit with a blast of air, some clings to the walls of the intake ports, and then much of it gets shot into the back of the intake valve... Atomization isn't necessarily as important as some will lead you to think. Apparently droplet size is more important, but I'm still unclear what the difference is between atomization quality and droplet size honestly. I thought the two were at least related if not essentially the same. I will seek clarification on this.

If I run race gas, he thinks I can get away with a single bank of injectors. I'd much prefer the simplicity of that if possible!

[audifreakjim]

I would still consider e85 but use an e85 sensor to control the map blending. That way you just toss in some pump gas to store the car and fill up on e85 when the car is in season. Would be quite a bit easier than chasing down and paying for race gas all of the time.

[ChrisAudi80]

USRT also sell the Genesis II injectors. http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php?ma ... ts_id=1782
I looked them (550cc) for a while, but since I had 630cc Dekas I am just running those. Besides, I am at n00b level boost and power.
Running a ethanol sensor seems sensible for fine tuning.

[Justin517]

If you want reliability, run a Borg. I wouldn't waste my time with precision.


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[loxxrider]

If you want reliability, run a Borg. I wouldn't waste my time with precision.


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That's my opinion too, but the real reliability only comes with the so diesel ones (non efr) from what I've been seeing. I've seen quite a few failures being posted of efr in recent research. The big ones are pretty solid though. Not holset solid, but good enough

[loxxrider]

I would still consider e85 but use an e85 sensor to control the map blending. That way you just toss in some pump gas to store the car and fill up on e85 when the car is in season. Would be quite a bit easier than chasing down and paying for race gas all of the time.

That was my original plan, but I'm concerned with the quality of the e85 and injector fouling with e85 from the pump. I'm not going to risk a $20k+ engine on something like that. I'd just end up buying it in drums for peace of mind and then I'd have to worry about it going bad between uses.

[Justin517]

The other mechanic at work (former owner of sleepers performance) has built quite a few 500-650whp VRTs and has yet to see a Borg failure. One particular R32 makes 656whp and does 20k a year.


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[loxxrider]

The other mechanic at work (former owner of sleepers performance) has built quite a few 500-650whp VRTs and has yet to see a Borg failure. One particular R32 makes 656whp and does 20k a year.


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Efr or airwerks?

[loxxrider]

Now that the cat is out of the bag...

http://fourringperformance.com/crankshaft.php

Custom crankshaft coming soon

[PRY4SNO]

Badass.

Of course, you coulda just slummed it like I did and used a factory 92.8 crank... Hap's even selling his at the moment.

[chaloux]

You're using a 92.8 crank?