Eric's '90 80QT: rustic bits

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Concrete Sledge

Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be: spring perch confusion

Post by Concrete Sledge »

elaw wrote:Also if anyone has a set they're interested in selling cheap that doesn't look like it was pulled from the wreckage of the Titanic, I might be interested in buying! :-) But ya gotta let me know quick, because I might start cleaning these up as soon as tomorrow.


Those are'nt that bad, believe me, I wish I had a set that was in that nice of shape. I dont think its possible to buy those new either, I've looked high and low.
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elaw
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Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be: spring perch confusion

Post by elaw »

Really? ETKA seems to think they still exist, unless I'm reading it wrong. 893 412 113 for the fronts and 857 412 111B for the rears. GenuineAudiParts.com claims to have both... the fronts are semi-reasonable at $33 a pop, the rears less so at $93 each. I guess spot welding together the two parts that make up the rears is really costly. :roll:
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Eric Law
'12 A4Q completely boringly stock
'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
'97 Saab 9000 Aero: sold 5/2017, sorely missed
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elaw
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Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be: spring perch confusion

Post by elaw »

ur20v wrote:I have some B3 CQ (and B4) front strut housings for sale cheap :D they have the perches and they look brand new compared to that stuff ;)

Hey I appreciate it, and your price on those is good, but I'm kinda short on cash right now and just can't afford the whole setup.

Plus I just got done spending a ton of time derusting and painting the uprights I have... it would be a shame to let that effort go to waste! :frustrated: :D
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Eric Law
'12 A4Q completely boringly stock
'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
'97 Saab 9000 Aero: sold 5/2017, sorely missed
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elaw
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Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be: spring perch confusion

Post by elaw »

yodasfro wrote:Rears are on the top, fronts are on the bottom in the pic.

Thanks, man! Is there anything you don't know? :P

BTW Austin and others, I bought an AAN accessory bracket from Mr. Fro as a spare so I could tear mine apart and see if it can be repaired with standard bearings (I'm referring to the fan shaft, and it's the later design that presses into the bracket rather than bolts on).

I managed to get the "shaft with bearings" out easily enough, but it doesn't look like it's repairable. From photos I'd seen, it looked like a shaft with pressed-on bearings but that's not the case - it's all one integral unit. Plus the shaft is a weird size - 20mm. So the only repair option I can think of would be to cut the existing bearings off with a whiz wheel or something, turn down the shaft to 17mm to accommodate some standard bearings, then press new bearings on. The toughest part I think would be turning down the shaft since I suspect it's hardened, at least in the "bearing parts" if you know what I mean.
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Eric Law
'12 A4Q completely boringly stock
'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
'97 Saab 9000 Aero: sold 5/2017, sorely missed
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Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be: Look Ma, no battery tray!

Post by elaw »

It occurs to me that if I make too many more "Look Ma, no X" posts, there won't be any car left! :D But don't worry, soon we're gonna stop removing things and start adding them. Hank tells me my axles are on their way, I'm dying to see them! I met with my welding guy earlier today too and my whizzo custom intake manifold is coming along slowly, but it's coming along.

Other things are making progress too. For example, there's no more battery tray:
Image
I found this rust-oleum color called "canvas white" that's a pretty decent match for the faded white paint under the hood. When the PO of my 4KQ removed the tray, he left a ton of very unfriendly sharp metal edges behind... I was determined not to do that. Using mainly a whiz wheel, I removed darn near all the sheet metal, rounded off the edges of what remained, then applied primer, seam sealer, and a topcoat of paint. I won't claim to be a painting god, but I'm pretty happy with how it turned out.

And speaking of not being a painting god, I give you... suspension parts!
Image
Image
The paint job looks like crap but hopefully it'll protect well against rust. I removed pretty much all the rust from the parts using every imaginable technique, prepped them with POR-15 metal prep, painted with POR-15, then topcoated with rust-oleum glossy black. I guess experience will tell how it all stands up to Massachusetts winter road salt!
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Eric Law
'12 A4Q completely boringly stock
'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
'97 Saab 9000 Aero: sold 5/2017, sorely missed
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elaw
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Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be: fun with wiring

Post by elaw »

So I'm starting to attack the electrical aspect of this adventure...

I think I've pretty much got the battery cable figured out, I'm going to run it next to the passenger's-side rocker panel and through the now-vacant grommet where the procon-ten cable used to be.

The Megasquirt harness is driving me nuts though. In the 4KQ I had it under the dash where the deleted A/C used to be, and the wiring went through the same boot the CIS harness previously went through. But the 80 ain't set up that way... the CIS wiring goes from the ECU on the passenger's side all the way over to the driver's side, through the firewall, and then to the engine.

I'd really like to reuse the Megasquirt harness as-is so I need a shorter path. I'm figuring I'll put the ECU up inside the dash above the glovebox, but where to route the wires? The $#$#@!! heat/AC box blocks pretty much all the good places to go through the firewall. I've found two possible locations, neither of which is wonderful. One is about 3" above and to the left of the AC evaporator connection (looking from the engine side of the firewall) which is a good spot from the engine perspective but very hard to access from inside the car. The other is about 3" to the right of the evap connection and about 1" below it, near the transmission tunnel. That spot is more easily accessed from inside the car, but being lower in the engine compartment I'm worried about water splashing on it.

Does anyone have any ideas or pix relating to this? How did all you folks who put 20VT engines into B3s route the engine harness? Enquiring minds want to know! :P
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Eric Law
'12 A4Q completely boringly stock
'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
'97 Saab 9000 Aero: sold 5/2017, sorely missed
savagerocco
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Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be: fun with wiring

Post by savagerocco »

I cut a hole right below the ac lines going into the passenger compartment. Then i mounted the ecu under the glovebox never had a problem with water. I wanted to get a gromet on the bundle but never did. Nothing bad has happened. Wouldn't be worried.
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Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be: fun with wiring

Post by elaw »

Well luckily a grommet isn't an issue because I pulled this thing out of the 4K complete with everything including the grommet!

You've never had a problem with passengers' feet hitting the ECU?
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Eric Law
'12 A4Q completely boringly stock
'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
'97 Saab 9000 Aero: sold 5/2017, sorely missed
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elaw
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Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be: fun with wiring

Post by elaw »

By the way, for those using an AAN engine who have had to deal with the serpentine idler pulley (that in the original installation also held the fan) bearing wearing out, stay tuned for an interesting solution!

I'm having someone make me an aluminum thingy that will press in where the bearing used to go, and on the front of it will be mounted a more "conventional" (and a whole lot cheaper) pulley like this:
Image
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Eric Law
'12 A4Q completely boringly stock
'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
'97 Saab 9000 Aero: sold 5/2017, sorely missed
savagerocco
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Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be: fun with wiring

Post by savagerocco »

Check with scubadave i got a plug machined for him to do just what you have in mind it worked out great.
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elaw
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Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be: intake manifold JOY

Post by elaw »

Today's news comes to you from intake-manifold land, and it's GREAT news! In the words of the Grateful Dead it's been a "long strange trip" but I finally got my whizzo custom intake made up. Behold:
Image
There's still one detail to be taken care of and that's how to anchor the throttle cable. But I probably won't be able to figure that out until the engine is in the car.

My biggest worry was the TB clearing that banjo bolt on the PS pump... it doesn't have a ton of clearance, maybe 1/2", but it's enough.
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Eric Law
'12 A4Q completely boringly stock
'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
'97 Saab 9000 Aero: sold 5/2017, sorely missed
savagerocco
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Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be: intake manifold JOY

Post by savagerocco »

nice Eric......
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pkw
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Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be: intake manifold JOY

Post by pkw »

please tell us what the intake mod entailed.
500hp for $500? Holset + mc2 bottom + 7a head
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elaw
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Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be: intake manifold JOY

Post by elaw »

Well I didn't do all the work myself so I can't give you all the details! But it went something like this:
* Design, and get machinst friend to make, a flange for the throttle body. We made it out of 3/8" aluminum, and I bought a TB gasket to use as a template. Basically he made it in rectangular shape, then I used a hacksaw and file to cut the outside down to exactly the right shape. This is mostly so the welder could easily get access behind it, otherwise having a little extra hanging off the sides is not a problem.

* Find a piece of pipe to go between said flange and the manifold. Aluminum of course. A place called onlinemetals.com has aluminum "strutural tube" which is 3" OD and 2.625" ID which is just about the ideal size. Usually it's sold by the foot, but they have 10"-12" "leftovers" they sell for semi-cheap (I think I paid ~$15.00).

* Cut the end of the tube at about a 30-degree angle to mate up with the manifold. The end that mates with the TB flange is straight.

* Have your friendly local welding+fab person modify the manifold by removing the old TB mounting (cut off with a bandsaw), cover the hole left behind by removing it (fabricate an aluminum plate and weld it in place), and enlarge the front area upward to accept the above-mentioned tube. The enlargement is due to the fact that to clear the PS pump (this is with the standard AAN serpentine-belt setup and an A6 pump) the TB must be mounted up fairly high. This photo shows the manifold as modified in this step:
Image

And this shows me holding the tube up for a test-fit. You'll notice there was a "nub" left over on the casting where the TB mounting used to be that interferes with the tube. I took it back to my guy and he ground that entire area down flat which made things much easier:
Image

There are also some holes, or more properly tubes, going through the manifold to make it easier to gain access to the bolts holding the manifold to the engine. Some of those will have to be removed and the resulting holes plugged. One of those tubes was where the "nub" is in the photos above.

* Attach the manifold to the engine, also of course have the PS pump in place (or anything else that might pose a clearance problem). Attach the TB to the flange. Figure out what position you want the TB to be in - the purpose of this exercise is just to figure out how long the tube should be.

* Cut the tube to the length you determined in the last step.

* Using two of your hands, hold the TB+flange+tube up against the manifold and decide what position you want it in, paying attention to clearing the PS pump. Using your third hand, mark the tube's position on the manifold and TB flange. :D

* Take the manifold off the engine. Using a pen, mark the contour of the inside of the tube where it meets the manifold.

* Use at least 17 tools, including at least 4 you don't own, to make a hole in the manifold that matches the inside of the tube. Since the tube is angled, the hole is oblong so don't think you're just gonna get away with using a hole saw! Seriously, I used a drill to make a series of holes around the perimeter, a saber saw to cut between the holes, then a Dremel tool and file to finish/smooth it off.

* Take the TB flange, tube, and manifold back to the welding person and have them weld it all together.

* Enjoy!

By the way, you may have noticed there's no throttle cable there. That's going to have to wait until I get the engine into the car and I can see how that needs to fit together.
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Eric Law
'12 A4Q completely boringly stock
'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
'97 Saab 9000 Aero: sold 5/2017, sorely missed
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elaw
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Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be: Houston, we have a suspensio

Post by elaw »

As the title(today) says: we have suspension!
Image
Painstakingly de-rusted and painted uprights and spring seats, and new everything else including H&R springs. Yay! :-)

The front axles are there too, by the end of the day today they should have CV joints and boots, and be ready for installation. Yay again!
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Eric Law
'12 A4Q completely boringly stock
'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
'97 Saab 9000 Aero: sold 5/2017, sorely missed
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elaw
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Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be: juicin'

Post by elaw »

Today's work was positively electrifying! Seriously... I installed the positive battery cable. :D

It starts at a terminal under the hood:
Image
...later I'll install a cable from there to the starter, continuing to the alternator. Also the car's electrical system will tie in here.

Continues through the incredibly-conveniently-located procon ten cable clips on the passenger's-side rocker panel:
Image

And along the rocker panel in the rear and up under the back seat:
Image

Through a hole into the trunk:
Image
The hole has a rubber grommet in it, plus for extra protection the cable runs through a length of "poly pipe" intended for use in lawn-sprinkler systems.

And ends up next to the battery box:
Image
The actual connector for the battery isn't installed yet. Also yet to be figured out are how to anchor the battery box (if at all... in the 4000 it just "sat there"), and what to connect the negative cable to.
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Eric Law
'12 A4Q completely boringly stock
'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
'97 Saab 9000 Aero: sold 5/2017, sorely missed
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elaw
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Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be: diff angst part 37

Post by elaw »

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

Can someone working on a project like this do me a favor? Next time someone tells you an urquattro diff "just fits" into a B3 (sedan, at least), punch them for me? Hard! :-x

Observe:
Image
Where the arrow is pointing, note there's a fitting on the top of the diff that is in contact with the trunk floor. Well... the diff needs to go up at least another 1/2" to be in its proper place, plus even more clearance is needed for it to be able to move around.

So I guess it's time to take a hammer to the trunk floor and see what I can do. Gonna be interesting, given that the fuel tank is right there... :(
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Eric Law
'12 A4Q completely boringly stock
'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
'97 Saab 9000 Aero: sold 5/2017, sorely missed
ur20v
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Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be: diff angst part 37

Post by ur20v »

Ummm, why don't you just swap the guts?
2005 A4 Ultrasport - K04'd, AEB head, GIAC tuned, still pokey
2001 TT 225 quattro Roadster - Stage 2+, looking for B&M shifter
2001 S4 - Tial 770R'd 3.1 stroker coming
1988 80 quattro - 4.2 powered FrankenAudi made from 13 cars and counting...
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elaw
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Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be: diff angst part 37

Post by elaw »

Well I thought about that. But after looking at the book at the procedure re setting the pinion depth and shimming the diff carrier bearings, I kind of got scared off. It seems like a lot of special tools are required, and I might have needed extra shims that I don't have and so on. I know there's a chance I could have just thrown the stuff in there and had it work, but I didn't want to risk getting the car all put together and finding I had a gear whine or finding years later there was excessive wear because it wasn't set up right.

But the good news... I fixed the problem!

You can kind of see in the photo above there's a thing sticking up from the top of the diff with a plug in it that's much like an engine oil plug, in that it screws "onto" the hole rather than "into" it. Well I pulled the plug out and it was obvious there was a lot of extra depth in the hole. So I cut the top off an old Saab engine-oil plug (which thankfully had the correct thread), cut a slot in it so it could be installed with a screwdriver, and screwed it all the way to the bottom of the hole. Then I took a whiz wheel and cut off the upper now-unused part of the projecting thing. It now looks like this:
Image
That plus using a hammer to pound in the underside of the car yielded about 5/8" of clearance with the diff installed, which I think should be plenty.

I accomplished something else interesting also today... I replaced the fuel lines. Being the type that really hates rust, I didn't replace them with steel... I replaced them with teflon! Here's a photo:
Image
I know that probably makes some of you cringe, and if this was a rally car where the underside of the car would take a pounding, I'd never do it. But this car will only be driven on the street, and I've done two Audis this way before with very good results.
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Eric Law
'12 A4Q completely boringly stock
'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
'97 Saab 9000 Aero: sold 5/2017, sorely missed
my2000apb DrBeastCar

Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be: diff angst part 37

Post by my2000apb DrBeastCar »

trial by fire, ilike it
this car will be quite the oem hybrid of parts
nice progress keep it up!!
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elaw
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Re: Eric's '90 80QT-to-be: axles yay, brakes nay!

Post by elaw »

So this weekend was interesting... some good, some bad stuff.

Good: the strut assemblies are in the car. So far in front it's just the upper parts, but in the rear we now have complete struts, hubs w/carriers etc. and AXLES! The modded-by-Hank axles appear to fit just fine. No brakes yet, I test-fit everything together and it appears I'm gonna need some washers under the caliper mounting bolts which surprised me a little but no biggie. The control arms also aren't present, I gave up trying to install new bushings into the rusty old things myself and for $130 just ordered a couple of new ones.

Bad: front brakes. I'm doing a G60 conversion with UrS hubs and most of the rest of the hardware is CQ. Stupidly, I ordered 5KQ front rotors thinking all of the 5x112, 256x25 rotors of that era were the same and of course they're not - the CQ ones are taller. Luckily the vendor will take back the 5K rotors but now I gotta find something different for the front. I *really* want Zimmermann cross-drilled rotors, and it looks like the perfect thing would be their p/n 100.1224.52 which is an S2 rotor. But I can't find those anywhere in the US - does anyone know of someone in the USA that can special-order Zimmermann rotors? I see them for sale on some foreign websites but with shipping I'm looking at $500 a pair which I just can't swing right now. If that doesn't work out, I guess I'll buy a pair of CQ Zimmermann's and get them drilled to 5x112.

Oh and pictures? Yeah, about that... I brought the camera out last night and it's so farkin' humid out the lens fogged up! So when the weather moderates a little I'll snap some pix and update this post or maybe post a little farther down ;^)
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Eric Law
'12 A4Q completely boringly stock
'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
'97 Saab 9000 Aero: sold 5/2017, sorely missed
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elaw
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Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be: diff angst part 37

Post by elaw »

my2000apb wrote:trial by fire, ilike it
this car will be quite the oem hybrid of parts
nice progress keep it up!!

Yeah, fire is what it seems like this week! U got the hot weather up there in NH too, no?

Yesterday when I was assembling the axles, I actually did it inside the garage, and took the axles and tools all the way around through the basement to the car (which is out in the driveway) just so I could keep the garage door shut to keep the heat out! :roll:
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Eric Law
'12 A4Q completely boringly stock
'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
'97 Saab 9000 Aero: sold 5/2017, sorely missed
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elaw
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Re: Eric's '90 80QT-to-be: axles yay, brakes nay!

Post by elaw »

Okay there's one other thing I did over the weekend... you'll get a charge out of this: the battery! It's now installed and we have electricity up to the front of the car. Which isn't such a big deal in most 80s but in my car the battery is in the back. :P

Here is the box and wiring:
Image

With the battery installed...
Image

...and covered:
Image
That's a 150A circuit breaker you see attached to the box. In the 4K I had a fuse, but this time I decided to splurge on a breaker so I wouldn't get stuck with a blown fuse in the middle of nowhere.

I struggled with where to ground the thing, and finally decided to go under the nuts that hold the bumper on. Just to make sure it gets a good connection, I actually installed two ground cables, one going to each bumper bracket. If you squint hard, you can see them both connected to the lower terminal on the breaker.

The cables themselves are a hodgepodge of stuff: one ground cable and the one between the breaker and battery negative terminal are salvaged from the 4K. The other ground cable I had lying around. The positive cable (featured a few posts ago) is #2 AWG SGX automotive wire, the battery terminal connector is really nice tinned copper, soldered on.
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Eric Law
'12 A4Q completely boringly stock
'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
'97 Saab 9000 Aero: sold 5/2017, sorely missed
DE80q
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Re: Eric's '90 80QT-to-be: axles yay, brakes nay!

Post by DE80q »

You dont mind if I um... borrow your battery setup do you? I was kind of wondering what kind of battery box to run. I had thought I might have had to run a civic sized battery to put in that spot.

Also, where did you get that box? the ones I am finding are huge.
"If you can't find one, make one"

Dallastown, PA
1991 Audi 80 quattro (20vt project)
1991 Audi Coupe Quattro (project: my first 20v)
2007 Mitsubishi Raider(Dakota in disguise)
2019 Chevy Cruze RS hatch (wife's little red sporty car)
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elaw
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Re: Eric's '90 80QT-to-be: axles yay, brakes nay!

Post by elaw »

Oh man... I got that box out of the trunk of my 4KQ, it was put there by the previous owner! So I don't know its origin.

There is a label on it, but unfortunately it's on the side that's not visible. I do remember it said "Rubber Queen" on it. I'm not sure it's exactly the same thing, but this one looks pretty similar: http://www.amazon.com/Rubberqueen-M300- ... B00029JTUG

And it is pretty large - probably 1" wider and 2-3" longer than the battery itself. It just barely fits in that spot, but it does fit.
Be alert! America needs more lerts.
Eric Law
'12 A4Q completely boringly stock
'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
'97 Saab 9000 Aero: sold 5/2017, sorely missed
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