Eric's '90 80QT: rustic bits

[DE80q]

Looks like it is fitting in there nicely. good thing is it shouldn't be too hard to fab up the brake lines needed to run this.

[domas]

quick question here... does this pump require a separate ecu under the rear seat or this is a newer style pump with integrated control unit?

[elaw]

This one has a separate ECU - it's one of the last that was done that way.

I had actually bought a newer one with the integrated controller, but it turned out to be bad and that the first series of integrated ones have had a lot of failures. Also I think it would have needed to have digital communication with the engine ECU which this one doesn't need - a plus for me since I'm using Megasquirt.

[elaw]

Where's the "excitedly jumping up and down with joy" emoticon?

I made my first brake line today. Probably not a big deal for most of you, but I've been working on cars for ~35 years and until today have managed never to have to make a brake line... until now!

It's not exactly a work of art, but I think it'll do:


And the cheesy $20 flaring tool (OTC 4504 if anyone's interested) I got on Amazon actually works quite well:


Crazy though it looks, that line is actually about the right shape - it goes from the master cylinder to the ABS pump and the two ports are only about 2" apart. I figured I'd put a loop in it since the pump is rubber-mounted and thus can move around a little, so the loop will give the line a little flexibility.

Now to do all the rest of the lines...

[DE80q]

That looks great! I think I may need to invest in that tool. Seems to have done a great job.

[elaw]

Yeah I probably shouldn't brag too much until I get the thing put together and I see it not leaking, but hey...

[elaw]

Okay now I get to brag. I got the thing put together and it doesn't leak!

ABS install phase I aka "the hydraulic part" is now complete... and I think I managed not to hurt either myself or the car! :-)

What I thought would be the most challenging part turned out not to be too bad... running an additional brake line to the rear of the car. Both ABS and non-ABS B3s only have a single line running front-back, which connects to a t-fitting under the back of the car, with lines going to both back wheels. The UrS6 system is 4-channel ABS and has separate lines running to each rear wheel - so I had to add one.

This picture doesn't show it very well, but basically I disconnected the line going from the t-fitting to the passenger's side rear wheel, closed off its port on the t-fitting with a bleeder screw, and used a union to connect it to a new line going to the front of the car:

As you can see I made a little bracket out of sheet metal to support the line - otherwise it flopped around pretty badly.

The remainder of the job consisted of making up short lines to go from the ABS pump to the master cylinder, and to connect to all the existing brake lines. I'm sure some of you hardcore folks would have replaced the existing lines but I'm much too lazy for that. The result looks like this:


I got the system filled and bled, and ran all new fluid through everything since it was fluid-change time anyway. The car's got a good pedal, and I held pressure on it for about 2 minutes without it dropping at all so hopefully there aren't any leaks! :woowoo:

Now on to phase II: the electrical part.

Speaking of which... I don't suppose someone who has an ABS-equipped B3 apart could snap a photo or two of how the wire from the front wheel sensor is routed to the body? I of course know where the sensor goes, and there's a bracket for the cable on the upright, but which hole in the fender it's supposed to go through and how it gets there is not wicked obvious. This is with 2-piece front uprights if it matters, which I think it does.

[DE80q]

Very nice. Looks like everything is managing to fit in there. I think this will work out quite well. Cant wait to hear about this system working.

[elaw]

Okay this is a long shot but I'm gonna go for it anyway...

I recall a while back seeing a discussion here (I think...) of suspension noise after installing H&R lowering springs. The consensus seemed to be that it was because of the bound coils in the variable-rate setup, and there was some Honda part that could be installed between the coils to cushion them and alleviate the noise.

I've searched repeatedly and can't find the thread in question, or more importantly the Honda part number. Does anyone here remember that thread and could you point me to it - or info on the Honda part? :?

[my2000apb DrBeastCar]

are you talking about spring rubbers? like the wedges? check the roundy round companies they use them a lot

[DE80q]

I thought it was just a problem where the springs needed to be flipped "upside down". As in the #s printed on the springs would be upside down.

[elaw]

No, I've checked that and I'm sure I've got the spring position right.

I think it's related to the progressive springs, which have some coils that are "bound" (hitting each other) when the car is sitting at normal height. As the car is driven over bumps and the springs compress and uncompress, those coils sometimes unbind then when the spring is compressed again they hit each other and that makes a noise.

I solved the problem for a while by putting tie-wraps around the coils so they weren't hitting metal-on-metal, but from all the pounding most of them (the tie-wraps) have broken off.

[DE80q]

Interesting, I saw in one thread that somone had used what looked to be garden hose to insulate the coils from each other.

[yodasfro]

Your honda part# is here http://20v.org/suspupgr.htm

[elaw]

That's what I was looking for... thanks! :-)

Edit: in case anyone's interested, the Honda p/n is 52442-SH3-000. I just ordered a few and will report back on how they fit and work.

[elaw]

So guess what... I've got working ABS!

I actually got everything working about a week ago but between the stickiness of the tires and traffic I didn't actually have an opportunity to test the system until today. But luckily this morning we had quite a healthy rainstorm and on my way to lunch there was this patch of wet sand and... :-)

This setup is pretty much the best of all worlds IMHO. It's got the UrS6 features of 4-channel ABS and EDL, with the B3 "ABS off" switch and automatic disabling of the system when the diffs are locked.

I think I'd mentioned earlier that even though this car never had ABS, there was an ABS relay under the dash! I have no idea why it was there, but the two wires that were actually present and connected, were connected to the right places (power and ground). So I just moved them over to the connector for the new ABS relay. That plus a lot of splicing in general and monkeying with pins on one of the connecters on the relay bracket made it all work.

I also think I may have good news on the A/C front. I think I posted earlier that the B3 A/C condenser hits the throttle shaft with my current setup. Well I had a brainstorm over the weekend... the B3 condenser is very thick and maybe a thinner one could be found? And I think I'm right. At the point where the problem is (where the hose connects at the top) the B3 condenser is effectively 3-1/2" thick. This one: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/vta-0 ... /overview/ is only 3/4" thick in the same area!

If I'm right about that (I've already ordered one of those condensers) it'll be one major barrier out of the way to getting A/C working on this car. An added bonus is that the thinner condenser should allow me to fit a variable-displacement compressor in there that will not only be more efficient, it should cool faster when first turned on too.

[elaw]

As the Monty Python folks used to say... and now for something completely different!

Followers of this thread may know that the one big thing still not working on this car is the air conditioning. Not that I'm going to die without it, but IMHO as the old saying goes it's nicer to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

The barriers to getting it working in this car are steep. Almost all of the underhood components of the OEM system have some sort of conflict with stuff I've done... the accumulator and it's plumbing used to live where the turbo is now, the pressure line to the evaporator conflicts with the shift linkage. And the original condenser was just clearance hell... note how it doesn't exactly play nice with the throttle linkage:

That's not even the worst issue with the throttle - the condenser's outlet fitting protrudes about 1/2" farther than what you see above, and causes a major issue with the throttle shaft.

The condenser also interferes with the AAN alternator/compressor bracket which I cut away to make more space, but it's still super-tight. And forget about using the AAN compressor (remember I'm running a serpentine setup so no B3 compressor) - it's too deep, and the lines coming off the back make things even worse.

The compressor thing I partly had figured out, as it came to my attention that certain Saab compressors are very short, and have the fittings on the top, not the back. But the throttle thing had me stumped... I thought I was going to have to modify (again) the intake manifold.

Well a few days ago something dawned on me... the Audi condenser is very unusually thick. So... maybe another one could work? Well, folks, without further ado, I give you the Superflow VA03332 condenser:

To say it clears easily would be a major understatement. The Audi condenser is effectively 3-1/2" thick near the throttle... this one is less than an inch!

The only thing that stinks is it's just a tad too tall. I had hoped to mate this up with a brand-new Behr B3 radiator I got my hands on, but unlike the one that's in the car now, that radiator has the aux radiator port on the front, which sits in the space the condenser wants to occupy. I *might* be able to make it work if I could find a way to cap off the aux radiator port without making it stick out significantly farther... does anyone have any bright ideas? I do have a piece of hose with a metal plug that would do the job, but it adds about 1" to the length which is too much.

Or... I don't suppose anyone has a new or mint 4KQ radiator they want to trade for a brand-new-in-the-box Behr B3 one?

[Katman]

> does anyone have any bright ideas?

Someone just a short while ago. posted a Picture and part number of an 'internal' compression plug, in that you put it in the rad outlet, tighten the bolt that goes through it,and it expands. A solution for the 'aux rad delete' people. Would take up hardly any distance!

[Katman]

Yes.. Here's the thread!

http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php? ... ead#unread

And the part:

[elaw]

Interesting... I'll check those out. Thanks!

[ur20v]

Reminds me of those replacement freeze plugs you can buy at your FLAPS...

[elaw]

OMG, I just realized what I'm building here... it's an Ikea A/C system!

"Weld barb fitting FF onto manifold CK. Insert hose J3 over fitting FF then tighten hose clamp C5."

Oh, well, it's a long road, but it'll be cool when it's done (puns intended).

It is coming along slowly but well though. I got all the adapters to make my old R12 gauge set work with that thar newfangled refrigerant, dragged out my vacuum pump I hadn't used in maybe 15 years and fired it up. Adapters for mounting the compressor to the AAN are "in production" and look like they might actually work. And I *think* I've got all the hoses and interconnections figured out...

[GTJeff]

Does your B3 radiator have plastic end caps or metal? I might worry about the internal pressure of that boat plug splitting the nozzle if it's plastic. If its metal maybe you could crimp it off and weld or braze it. If it's plastic maybe you could find some kind of heavy duty radiator nipple cap.

[elaw]

Yeah, it's got plastic tanks. And to make things even more fun, the inside of the fitting tapers just enough to make it a biatch to find something with a proper fit.

So I've decided to go with a plug but of a different type:

My machinist/savior Dave is gonna make that up out of aluminum, it then gets an o-ring put on it, slid into the hole, and held in place with a cotter pin. Kind of old-school, but it should fit well (if I measured right ) and have a very low profile. The condenser's going to sit in front of it so clearance is a big thing.

Oh and if you're wondering what the hole in the end is, that's so I can use some sort of a hook to pull it out if I mess up!

[elaw]

And we have (more) parts! Not in hand quite yet but if the USPS gods smile on me they'll be here Saturday.

The long bars and donut-shaped things are for mounting the Saab compressor in place of the AAN one. The bit with the o-ring is the plug for the radiator. Thanks to Dave for making the small parts and fixing my screwups on the large ones.

I also dropped off some soon-to-be frankenfittings with my welding guy this morning. I'll post pics of those as soon as I get them back.