Loxxrider's 200 20v Revver: See you on "The Project Pad"

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:13 am

I'm going to have like 6 3" straight couplers and from whats on the car now I'll have a 2.25 to 2.5 a 2.5 to 2.75 coupler.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:25 am

Thought I'd mention that I've been having to tune the car for timing. The whole map is off. I've had to add 5 degrees in places just to get it to pull through the revs smoothly. This is a map that should work on the car too, its super weird, but the car likes what it likes. Its time consuming doing this for almost the whole map. I've got a lot more to do.

boschman36 · Post by **boschman36** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:06 am

loxxrider wrote:thanks man, I just talked to Javad. Prototype was approved, manifolds are in production. Still no ship date :( I really hope the manifold isn't what stops me from getting this beast done soon!
his lift pretty much.

Whaaa? Well at least I'll be able to put some money into the CQ guilt-free for a while then.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:07 am

Yeah...i mean how long can they be in production? Can't be more than a few weeks...

boschman36 · Post by **boschman36** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:23 am

Well at least they did it. I guess I can wait to have the 034 stamp of approval in my engine compartment instead of the STR or ebay manifold.

pitten · Post by **pitten** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:06 pm

loxxrider wrote:Thought I'd mention that I've been having to tune the car for timing. The whole map is off. I've had to add 5 degrees in places just to get it to pull through the revs smoothly. This is a map that should work on the car too, its super weird, but the car likes what it likes. Its time consuming doing this for almost the whole map. I've got a lot more to do.

I'm in the same boat, though in an earlier stage. Just upgraded to 1.1.70 this week and am still fiddling with the fueling. I tried to verify the TDC for triggering offset, but man, what a pain to get a timing light down there and trying to read a faded mark at the same time, in the rain, in front of Harbour Freight, I'll have to try again and harder on the weekend. :tard:

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:11 pm

hahah yeah...I used a Harbor Freight timing light to do mine. I had to advance my timing by 4 degrees just to get it right at TDC. My fueling is a little off too.

I forget...are you still on stock turbo and what not? We should share our maps to see whats up since to my knowledge we are the only 200's on 1.1.70 so far. My fueling is alright so far, but its going to need some more tweaking when I get into more boost and when I get the timing right.

pitten · Post by **pitten** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:23 pm

yep, still stock all around..I'm still working out Marcs "basemap" from his big turbo S6, seems to be a lot less troublesome then 1.1.27, starts, runs, and pulls pretty good already, with the wastegate boost bolt on mild and 1bar limit. I'll send my latest iteration via email, won't let me upload all this non-034 data

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:42 pm

Ok thanks man! I got it. I'll take a look at your log too.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:01 am

OK so when we did my timing belt job and cam install the end result was that we had to rotate the dizzy some to get the car to run...which tells me that something was obviously not quite right. This *MIGHT* have something to do with the current problems I'm having and why the car wants more timing than it should. We lined the marks up on the cams such that they were lined up with the top of the head and facing each other.

Maybe the dizzy got spun somehow when the cams were being put in...I really dont know, but I kinda doubt that. Maybe the cams were like a degree off, but two or three people said it looked right.

The main thing thats funky is that the car started having this problem when I went to 1.1.6x and 1.1.70 firmwares. Seemed to be just fine on 1.1.27 other than the misfire issue which we fixed after going to 1.1.6x by changing ground spots.

I guess I'd really like to know why starting the car required moving the dizzy. Again, either cams were a tooth off or the dizzy gear spun somehow.

I'd also really like to know why everything got shitty when I went to 1.1.6x other than the fact that almost nothing carries over from 1.1.27 since you go from using megatune to VEMStune. My fueling and timing tables are all new...and the car hates it.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:12 pm

Alright, I dont know what the hell to think right now. Switched back to 1.1.27 just to see if the car would run well again. No dice. Runs terribly on a config that used to run beautifully. So that rules out software or firmware almost completely. I thought there was a correlation there because I started having problems right when I switched firmwares.

Marc has mentioned (bad/old) injectors. Makes some sense to me. AFR is ALL over the map at idle for some reason. Its not stable at all. Now the car just misfires all the time. Its not just in boost. Its at idle, cruising, you name it. When cruising, the misfires happen and there is a corresponding RICH spike...not lean like you'd normally see.

Leak in the FPR line might also be something to check I suppose. Also seeing misfires being detected.

I'm seriously pulling my hair out about this. Its almost comforting to think that its not likely an ECU issue. I don't even know where to start, but I guess FPR vac lines are a good place.

This weekend has been entirely too stressful. I have exams coming up, the car doesn't run right, my tuning computer got a virus that rendered the computer useless and I spent all day today getting it back to working and tuning status, and the list of shit goes on. I wish stuff would just work!! :frustrated:

SirRipo · Post by **SirRipo** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:53 pm

Hey man, don't let it get you down. Shit sucks, but it will be worth it in the end, right?

Also, this car is my inspiration to get another 200 as soon as I can, yours is the best I've seen on here.

85oceanic · Post by **85oceanic** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:03 pm

DANG MAN! That SUCKS!!! I just got caught up on what's going on. I wish I could offer some help. But I honestly can't yet. IF you've got everything timed in right and what not, I find it really odd that switching back to your old firmware didn't even work. So I bet Marc is right about injectors. Maybe get those suckers checked out... maybe a good time for an upgrade too???

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:18 pm

Haha I'm not down about the car itself. I didn't mean that the car actually sucks. I just couldn't fit "help me figure out whats wrong with this car" in the subject line. I'm just frustrated with the problems its having. I LOVE LOVE LOVE the car. Don't worry! Thanks for the kind words ripo

I hope you do get another one. Make it a 20v

Ben, I totally agree. I'm not even going to waste my time getting the injectors checked. I've been planning on going to bigger injectors in the next few months. My plan was just to wait for a while and run the Holset on low boost on the stock injectors because the ones I want are freakin $500 for 5. This is all the more reason I need to get rid of a few things (like the corbeau seat!

)

Cheapest solution is the vacuum lines so I'll do that first. I'll also order the injectors the first $500 I get. Maybe I'll get that adj. FPR that 034 offers as well. I will make use out of that at some point too.

Anyway, I'm open to any other suggestions. Keep 'em comin!

LowlyOilBurner · Post by **LowlyOilBurner** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:08 am

Just did the 1.1.70 firmware update my S4. Had it done at the shop I work at part time, so I wasn't they guy punching keys on a laptop, the owner of the shop is in charge of that, standalone tuning is what he knows/what he does. We had some issues, loaded the wrong update at first, at like 11pm Friday night. Came back Saturday morning, got it sorted out, called Marc like ten times between Friday and saturday (again, THANK YOU Marc!!!!). Finally got the the car running (excellent). Got it on the dyno, and I let Mike (the tuner) do his thing. We had some triggering issues, verified the positions of the cam sensor in relationship to the window on the cam gear, and also verfied the crank trigger pin in relation to the crank position sensor. All was in order. Some quick changes Marc told Mike to do in the software got rid of the triggering issues.

Here's where it gets funky:
did a few pulls, no probelms, then around 18-20psi, total ignition cut out at around 6500-7k. The car has stock AAN coils from 1994 on it, and the 20psi is coming out of a 42R turbo...I think the coils failing, and possibly the triggering issue may have come from a misfire, due to the coils? This ignition cut was around when we got up to 433whp on ~20psi. I don't know how many people are making "big" power on stock aan coils? I see most people have misfire issues with just a simple chip install?

Anyways, sorry to sway offtopic, but I figured I'd add my experience with the new update. I don't think any my issues are software related at this point.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:29 am

I don't mind the input at all. Sometimes its so hard to say whats causing what issue when changing so many things at a time. Even if only one variable changes at a time, things can still be coincidental and make a perfectly fine component get the blame for a problem.

I just gotta knock out some serious homework and then I can get to work on the car.

SeStone · Post by **SeStone** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:50 am

Chris, have you run a pressure test, even if it's on nothing more than the intake manifold? I was having inconsistencies in my AFRs at cruise and idle, turned out I had a couple of big vacuum leaks at my injector seals, right at the runner. Speed density really doesn't like those.

Sam

Post by **Hank** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:57 am

:stupid: Backfires are VERY hard on gaskets everywhere. What you are explaining would make sense if a intake gasket was broke, or an injector seal is busted.

Also, when was the last time you did a compression test. I hate to be the one to suggest it, but running wacky timing with backfire, wacky AFRs, exc can be hard on engines. How is oil consumption?

TheArchitect · Post by **TheArchitect** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:37 am

SeStone wrote:Chris, have you run a pressure test, even if it's on nothing more than the intake manifold? I was having inconsistencies in my AFRs at cruise and idle, turned out I had a couple of big vacuum leaks at my injector seals, right at the runner. Speed density really doesn't like those.

Sam

Actually speed density shouldnt mind air leaks at all, its no different than if you opened the throttle and have the same increase in airflow and manifold pressure, the net result is that the added air will increase idle speed.

If that added idle speed also causes an AFR shift then you are not well mapped across that range.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:58 am

Yeah, I didn't think that any kind of leaks could cause a problem on a MAP-based car. I'm not ruling anything out though.

I'll check compression.

I'm talking about AFR's going haywire while RPM's are staying almost perfectly stable. Everything was staying in one cell.

Oil consumption at the moment is normal as far as I know. I just made multiple long trips with the car with no issues other than the stuttering I was getting.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:05 pm

I cant find any vac leaks by inspection. I don't have the ability to pressurize the system right now.

Weird thing is when I started the car up it ran beautifully for the first 10 seconds or so. Throttle response was what it should be. 10 seconds went by and its was terrible again as seen in this video.

Link to video

I also had to connect this vac line (the white one)...not sure what it is at all. It goes thru the firewall. Maybe cruise control or something? Either way, it had no effect on the problem.

TheArchitect · Post by **TheArchitect** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:16 pm

are you running closed loop lambda control?

If so, perhaps the sensor or control system took a dump and the ECU is compensating to bad data.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:23 pm

No, EGO is off completely. I'm pretty against running it.

TheArchitect · Post by **TheArchitect** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:42 pm

well then log it and see what the sensors tell you.

Do you trust your wideband?

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:26 pm

Yes, I have faith in the wideband because I've checked it against others.

We did some kind of reflash thing today. Not firmware reflash but like an external reflash of the config. We did that and then burned my config again and the car isn't exhibiting the issues it was before anymore :wtf:

super weird

I also threw in 440cc injectors just to make sure injectors weren't the problem. I did that before trying the trick above with no change. So its not the car's fault...yay!!

I'm not going to throw the original injectors back in until I can get new o-rings for them (borrowed the 440's from a friend). The orings on the originals weren't in the very best of shape. Should have that taken care of tomorrow.

Its pathetic how unstable megatune is on my computer.