The Project Pad

mushasho wrote:did you log the runs in the video?

Ya, but I also have taken several logs and made changes since I took video. Are you guys interested in seeing a log for kicks?

85oceanic wrote:

mushasho wrote:did you log the runs in the video?

Ya, but I also have taken several logs and made changes since I took video. Are you guys interested in seeing a log for kicks?

But of course!

Love it, nice work.

Kinda wish your boost gauge would just go in full circles haha

Hey Guys, this is the log from that drive. I didn't get a chance to get out and snag one today. I might be able to get an updated one up later tomorrow.

Haven't had a chance to look yet but I will

I have two more to upload, just been busy.

Holy rich city batman. lol. take 10% out of the VE table on boost and you'll still be slightly rich. You can leave the boost ramp up slightly rich but a bit can come out of it too.

also for refdc (boost control), do 100% for 3000rpm and under, and back off from there. It will help spool a lot. and it also looks like 40% is a bit too much DC when asking for 225kpa (boost vs rpm table), as it's overboosting to about 245 at times.

I'd say lower your refdc to 35% or so at 3500+rpm, that should give you about 225kpa pretty steady, and then tune your fuel from there. But you can safely take out quite a bit... divide your actual lambda by target lambda to figure out how much % you need to change the VE table value by (or is it the other way around? it's in my book, i'll look it up tonight).

I think you can also take out some acceleration enrichment but I haven't played with that too much myself.

Have fun!

FYI that map has a weird hump in fuel at 3k rpm. No idea why my car needed it, but it did, invariably. your engine might not need it. I will take a look at that log sometime but haven't yet.

chaloux wrote:Holy rich city batman. lol. take 10% out of the VE table on boost and you'll still be slightly rich. You can leave the boost ramp up slightly rich but a bit can come out of it too.

He can also just bump down his fuel req from the current 2.6 to 2.5 or 2.4 seeing as he's rich across the board...

loxxrider wrote:FYI TN at map has a weird hump in fuel at 3k rpm. No idea why my car needed it, but it did, invariably. your engine might not need it. I will take a look at that lot sometime but haven't yet.

Thats cuz your setup had Holset insta spool... yeah that table didn't work very well for me either other than idle and driving sub 3k rpm ended up revamping it...

One thing I noticed in this log is that weird boost oscillation once it'a holding. Guess that was never ironed out from before huh..

mushasho wrote:

chaloux wrote:Holy rich city batman. lol. take 10% out of the VE table on boost and you'll still be slightly rich. You can leave the boost ramp up slightly rich but a bit can come out of it too.

He can also just bump down his fuel req from the current 2.6 to 2.5 or 2.4 seeing as he's rich across the board...

loxxrider wrote:FYI TN at map has a weird hump in fuel at 3k rpm. No idea why my car needed it, but it did, invariably. your engine might not need it. I will take a look at that lot sometime but haven't yet.

Thats cuz your setup had Holset insta spool... yeah that table didn't work very well for me either other than idle and driving sub 3k rpm ended up revamping it...

One thing I noticed in this log is that weird boost oscillation once it'a holding. Guess that was never ironed out from before huh..

Haha, yeah sure for reqfuel. I haven't seen any cruise conditions though so I didn't want to assume.

That boost is weird. What boost are you at on spring pressure, Ben? Have you checked all the vac lines and everything?

And for fuel tuning it's

Correction factor = actual lambda ÷ target lambda

MOAR BOOST!!!!!!

Thanks guys, I will update more tonight. I know that I'm running super rich on that log I sent you guys. I've leaned it out quite a bit sense that log, but I am still pretty rich. I'm a little more gun shy in terms of lean vs rich tune now that I've melted down the engine so I've just been taking baby steps towards the lean side. Also I will play with my boost settings some more and see what that gets me.

chaloux wrote:

mushasho wrote:

chaloux wrote:Holy rich city batman. lol. take 10% out of the VE table on boost and you'll still be slightly rich. You can leave the boost ramp up slightly rich but a bit can come out of it too.

He can also just bump down his fuel req from the current 2.6 to 2.5 or 2.4 seeing as he's rich across the board...

loxxrider wrote:FYI TN at map has a weird hump in fuel at 3k rpm. No idea why my car needed it, but it did, invariably. your engine might not need it. I will take a look at that lot sometime but haven't yet.

Thats cuz your setup had Holset insta spool... yeah that table didn't work very well for me either other than idle and driving sub 3k rpm ended up revamping it...

One thing I noticed in this log is that weird boost oscillation once it'a holding. Guess that was never ironed out from before huh..

Haha, yeah sure for reqfuel. I haven't seen any cruise conditions though so I didn't want to assume.

That boost is weird. What boost are you at on spring pressure, Ben? Have you checked all the vac lines and everything?

And for fuel tuning it's

Correction factor = actual lambda ÷ target lambda

As for the boost oscillation problem, I'm starting to believe my E-Bay BOV is the culprit; which, in a way really pisses me off because I blamed my hoslut for the problem and I really loved that turbo. I'm just now getting it back to what it used to feel like while driving. Also, IIRC my spring pressure is set for 17 psi. I'd have to pop that beast open to see what springs I have in it. OH and my vacuum lines are all good to go, I triple checked them.

Thanks for all your guy's help! I really really appreciate it! As for this mornings challenge, boost while drinking coffee without spilling. WOOOT!

EDIT: From about ten minutes ago

Alrighty guys, here is a log from tonight. I know it's damn rich still now that I look at it, so adjustments are going to need to be made there. Any other suggestions would/are more than welcome!

Edit: Ok, so I just made some changes to my boost curve and refDC. I will see how it runs out tomorrow morning, hopefully it comes on a bit stronger. I just want to avoid boost surge.

Thats cuz your setup had Holset insta spool... yeah that table didn't work very well for me either other than idle and driving sub 3k rpm ended up revamping it...

One thing I noticed in this log is that weird boost oscillation once it'a holding. Guess that was never ironed out from before huh..

Nah, it wasn't because of the turbo at all. I had the same spike with the stock turbo.

I took a look at your log. First I was looking at requested lambda and was like damn... that is spot on! I wouldn't change a thing! Then I realized my mistake LOL.

I gave it a quick first pass shot at tuning this a bit for you, but there is something wrong with my VEMStune so I can't save the config. I'm uploading a pic of the table if you want to input my values. I only tuned in the areas you made a pull in and smoothed it out around that a bit. I also took the rich hump out of the map by quite a bit (still no idea why my engine needed that).

If you do decide to use this, just make sure you monitor closely on the first pull. It's been a little while since I last tuned anything It should be an improvement and I seriously doubt it is too far in the lean direction. I think you'll need to take more out if anything, but you never know.

Thank you Chris! Ya man, last night I worked on the tune some more along with this morning before work and I have almost exactly the same numbers you do now (Minus taking out the top end of the hump).

SO, I guess here is my next question/problem, do you guys have ANY theories as to why I am getting severe boost oscillation after 6100ish RPMS? I experienced this exact same problem with my last setup (Holset goodness) and ultimately ended up blaming the turbo at the time and now it's clear to me that I was wrong. The only thing that is the same is my BOV, Charge Piping and HD N75 valve, otherwise it's all new and different from what I had before. So this leads me to believe that my El-cheapo BOV is the culprit. What do you guys think?

85oceanic wrote:Alrighty guys, here is a log from tonight. I know it's damn rich still now that I look at it, so adjustments are going to need to be made there. Any other suggestions would/are more than welcome!

Edit: Ok, so I just made some changes to my boost curve and refDC. I will see how it runs out tomorrow morning, hopefully it comes on a bit stronger. I just want to avoid boost surge.

Was this 1-2 shift or 2-3rd?.... I'm trying to do an overlay since our builds are similar except for turbo... thanks...

what spring pressure is your BOV running?

mushasho wrote:

85oceanic wrote:Alrighty guys, here is a log from tonight. I know it's damn rich still now that I look at it, so adjustments are going to need to be made there. Any other suggestions would/are more than welcome!

Edit: Ok, so I just made some changes to my boost curve and refDC. I will see how it runs out tomorrow morning, hopefully it comes on a bit stronger. I just want to avoid boost surge.

Was this 1-2 shift or 2-3rd?.... I'm trying to do an overlay since our builds are similar except for turbo... thanks...

IIRC, this is 2-3rd.

There's possibly alot more going on in the boost side of things too... Are you using a MAC valve or N75? Over 100kpa(14.5psi) in difference at 4,000rpm... Granted I have a heavier car so it loads up the turbo a bit better, but still you have a smaller turbine than mine.

5862(top) vs 5857(bottom)

Wow... that is a MASSIVE difference. Hmm... I'm going to try and tighten down my BOV and see what it does from there. Maybe it's bleeding off air. Oh and I'm using an HD N75 from Efixpress.

Edit: Also, if the the BOV is just a total piece of crap in terms of machine work, maybe it's just bleeding off air along with fluttering a little?

I can't really tell what is going on with your boost settings... I don't see any boost duty cycle in the log (even when I assign it to the plot). Part of the reason you're spooling slowly is due to not having PID set up, but judging by that massive difference in spool you may have a leak. BOV would definitely seem to be the place to look. I can't imagine the turbo surging due to a leak, but there could be a pressure surge due to a leak like you're predicting with the BOV... seems like you need to eliminate one source at a time!

loxxrider wrote:I can't really tell what is going on with your boost settings... I don't see any boost duty cycle in the log (even when I assign it to the plot). Part of the reason you're spooling slowly is due to not having PID set up, but judging by that massive difference in spool you may have a leak. BOV would definitely seem to be the place to look. I can't imagine the turbo surging due to a leak, but there could be a pressure surge due to a leak like you're predicting with the BOV... seems like you need to eliminate one source at a time!

Hey Chris, how do I go about setting up the PID? Or do you have a linky you can send me that will give me some DIY info?

EDIT: Never mind, I just figured it out. I'm actually going to start with what you have and then play with it from there. I also set my over-boost cut pretty low too so I don't hurt anything while figuring it out.

I would suggest running open loop boost control until you gather all the data to fill up your refDC table.

Make sure your boost cut is set to something reasonable.

Do a pull with the boost DC set at a flat 10%. Note what the boost is.

Repeat with 15, 20, 25, etc.

You will be able to build a really good refDC table this way, and you won't have to worry about PID control oscillations.

Oh, and how is your BOV plumbed?

Is the diameter of the hose a decent size? I've seen BOVs unable to stay closed in boost because the vacuum line is too small.