The Project Pad

Another thing you may want to try for easier starting is more battery power. One of the diesel forums suggested attaching an additional ground strap between the starter and the car's chasis. When I did this it seemed that my starter did turn faster. I have always had two large batteries hooked up to my diesels mainly for cold weather starts, but you could just try hooking up one of those jumper boxes directly to your starter to see if spinning the starter faster helps your car.

I'll give that a try. Thanks

Does it run rough at all after start ? any slight misfiring ?
If you know for a fact that there is fuel at the pump and the filter is full... it really shouldn't take more then a few cranks to get going. Even if there was air in the system it would have made its way out by now after some daily driving.
I remember at JJB a few years back a guys 1.9TD swapped cabby all of a sudden had a hard time starting and lacked serious power. Next to no fuel was coming through the lines. It was something with the tank... i can't remember if it was under extreme pressure or under a vacuum ... but the guy cracked the tank open , messed around with something and it was all good again.
Not sure if that is even a help but it could be something as strange as that.
Im still shocked it doesn't smoke under heavy load....

When it is cold no rough running with or without glow plugs, just takes longer to start without them.
When warm, if I don't use enough glow it will start rough and cough with blue smoke, but it clears after 10-15 sec and runs fine afterwards.

It dumped dumped bunch of diesel in very short time when I got it started in the driveway, one of the return lines came off. So I don't think there is a shortage of fuel.

I am not 100% sure the filter and pump are full, but I had the gas pump running till fuel came out of the IP return fitting on top of the pump, so I can only assume the system is purged. I am half way through the tank and 450km... not bad at all. Another half a tank and I'll be able to fill it again with some more diesel.
If there was gas left over most of it will be gone by then.

Mine was also really hard to start. I also suspected problem with the glowplugs.
When the timing was checked it was way too retarded, approximately a half tooth on the injection belt.
It was not possible to adjust timing by just rotating the pump. I had to loosen the sprocket on the cam to be able to adjust.

Yeah, really need to get it onto VAGCOM....

Started on a bucket of Diesel Purge, no difference, same starting issue.
I am starting to believe the timing issue, even though I have it set as per factory, something is off.
I also put couple of doses of diesel additive which is supposed to raise the cetane rating, no difference.

I have 600km and about 3/8 of a tank left to go so it can't be that bad, it's running efficiently enough at load.
Also, my rear bumper is black around the tail pipies, so it has to smoke a bit even though I can't see much in the rear view mirror when the pedal is down.

Cheers

Well that rules out the fuel theory, back to timing. I agree with smirre, try to advance it about 1/2 a tooth. If memory serves me correctly looking at the front of the engine/back of the injection pump the pump sprocket needs to go clockwise to advance it. Looking at the sprocket side of the pump counter-clockwise. * disclaimer* I have only done work on 1 AEL, it was a t-belt, but it was also about a year and a half ago. I think I loosened the center bolt of the pump sprocket and just turned the engine to get it to advance/retard.

When I advanced it to it's full adjustment slot it threw three codes at me.
Right now it's happy so untill I have a chance to see the actual numbers on VAGCOM I won't be doing much else.

On the 2.5 the pump is at the back of the engine and "backwards" to the 4 cyl setup.
Also on this one the pulley is keyed so no way to have such adjustment pleasure.
I can go adjustment slot or one tooth on the belt, that's all it allows me.. :(

Ya you won't have to adjust it to full. Im not sure if the pump adjustment is the same as the tds where the slot allows you to advance or retard the pump timing. You could be just a few degrees out rather then full travel in the adjustment slot

At first i thought it was that electric pump and H connection you describe, but i see you ran it off of diesel purge can with out all that and had same result.

It does sound timing, yes the pump is keyed but the cam is not. Is this a new Tbelt job? Did you lock the cam before checking timing?
Cam timing out just a little will make it run like shit, more impact then IP timing per degree.

I would get rid of the electric pump anyway, if you want a lift pump for easier priming go with a walbro FRB5, or other low pressure lift pump, but the FRB5's are really nice. You do not need it though, TDI's prime easy.

Do you have the proper banjo bolt on IP return connection? it should have small holes in it (restrictor).

Very nice swap, always wanted to do just that. So stupid we could not buy them like that in N America!

FWIW, what you describe is similar to what i just went through with my 1.6 VW Samurai. I used a cummins 4bt IP which is obviously different, but the advance mechanism is similar to yours and was sticky from sitting (and spring was wrong color, for a stationary generator engine) this caused improper advance. My cam timing was off a bit too, it started hard and always needed GP's.
Now that its right it starts much easier and behaves much differently.

Only thing I don't understand is if no one replace the T belt, how could cam timing be off?

I had a thought..... was this from a 5spd or an Auto originally ? I wonder if it were from an auto and the ecu thinks there is a tcm then it might react differently on start and throughout the range.

*edit* Nevermind.. went back and checked.


If cam timing were out... that would be a bit scary . It sounds like it could be. I wonder how it would happen myself

autoholic wrote:Only thing I don't understand is if no one replace the T belt, how could cam timing be off?

T-belt was not off so the crank-cam timing is the same, but I did take the pump off.

You can adjust pump timing from camshaft rear pulley. It does not have any keys in it.

Martin, you coming to the meet tonight? Please bring this! Dad's bringing his car.

Yep, I'll be there with the 80 quattro and the TDI.

The first fill up is done.

820km on 50Liters! Which is just over 6L/100km.
Not bloody bad... I love it. Now if I can get it to run better I am sure that number will be lower as well.

Cheers

MJF wrote:You can adjust pump timing from camshaft rear pulley. It does not have any keys in it.

Ahh.. thank you, did not know that... that will make it a bit easier.

Cheers

Awesome wheels Martin, it was great to see you again and see that TDI.

Thanks, that is one beautiful looking S6 you have there! Hope to see more of it next time.

Cheers

Major update, Saturday I spoke to Pawel R (person I bought the engine from) and he remembers that he had to bump the pump by one tooth fromthe OEM settings because he also had starting issues after changing both timing belts. He also has access to nice chip for my engne so that will be on it's way shortly.

Today James M, a fellow TDI enthusiast dropped by with his VAGCOM and we attempted to communicate with the ECU, no luck.
Might be beacue the 2x2 cable I have was china made (his software is lefit and registered) so no go on that front.
I then decided to follow Pawel's suggestion and bumped it by one full tooth...... drum roll....
Now the car starts not only without need for glow plug but on the first crank.
Not only that, it sounds completely different, the crackle is now louder and more "crisp"
Obviously it drives nicer and has more power. Not yet fully there but night and day differnce.

I have the dial indicator adapter that screws onto the back of the pump but still need to get the dial indicator itself.
Hope to have it in my hand tomorrow or Wednesday.
I'll be able to use this procedure:

http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/VehicleSpec ... Timing.htm

to fine tune it and get it where it's supposed to be.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, looks like timing is everything

Cheers

Big thumbs up.

Your B4Q TDI should have been built by Audi. It would have sold well, I'd say.

Diesel Audis are very popular in Europe.

Sweet, good job. Figured it would boil down to timing. Cool about the chip too.

That's way cool Martin. The more progress you make the more jealous I become. :wink: I love this project.

Glad you have it sorted and a chip is on the way!!

About the 2x2 connector - I bought one from China as well. I have Vag com and could not get it to connect to a 1990 v8 quattro. I tried and tried - then I called vag com, admitted my 'sin' - they were nice enough to point me to this site:

http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/2x2.html

They also gave me a pinout drawing that showed what pins on the OBD side went to what pins on the 2x2 side. Here it is:

http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/images/DLC_Pinout.gif

Long story short the chinese put the pins in the 2x2 side upside down! Once I realized this I had to 'force' the 2x2 connectors on upside down (it was easy because the chinese connectors were made from soft rubber) - when I did this it worked like a charm! Check yours out with a meter compared to the links above first! Disclaimer: If this is not your problem and you switch them you could cause damage - I don't think you will because mine were essentialy on backwards until I found the problem and I caused no damage to the car or vag com. Good luck.