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Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:55 pm
by loxxrider
Just wanted to announce once again how much fun I'm having with the car since its running right.

I tried brake boosting in first gear for the first time ever over the past week. ITS AWESOME!!!!!! I've never felt anything faster except for Marc's coupe but even that was comparable to this since it wasn't getting traction in first in the rain when I rode in it. Its all about traction, and thats why I bought this car (old audi in general). First gear with 3xx at the wheels hooking up is like 6xx hp in a car that finally hooks up in third or fourth. Thats all I'm sayin. I tried brake boosting in the rain and no spin still, just fast as hell. I was determined to get the car to spin all four tonight, so a little turning action was all it took to finally light them up like mad lol. Good fun :) Mind you this is a 3600 lb car with awd and 235 tires (sport contact 3). I'm not trying to say its super awesomely fast or anything, just saying I'm having great fun :D


**Future Planning Update**
Since I haven't posted anything progress-related in a while, I'll take this opportunity to lay a few things out.

I'm working on redoing my door panels and finishing them up with fiberglass so my speakers don't stick out of them anymore. Thinking about integrating some more volume in the front speaker boxes too since the speakers are currently being choked. They notoriously need a lot of space to sound right. Thats small crap though.

Next up, back to the serious business.

Most importantly, I need to get a wide first O1E and a good clutch in this car. I want to do some nice clutch dumps in the rain and I need it to turn the boost up anyhow (assuming I'm not at the limit of the rods yet). This will be first order of business from here on until its done. Its one of the main things holding me back. I'd love to just put a clutch in the 016, but thats pointless since I plan to surpass its capabilities pretty soon.

Gotta get a surge tank, a weldon pump (I don't trust the 044's as far as fuel flexibility and high pressures), and new lines. I'll probably feed the surge tank with my stock 040 pump. I'm slightly concerned with it since its 20 years old though so I might put a fuel level sensor in the surge tank. I do have another 040 pump that I can use while I save up for a weldon one if I need to. This is mostly to put the new manifold on with new fuel rail and such. I know I can convert the stock hardlines, but I like to go big and I'd like to get it done for when I need it later anyhow.

Also need to get some stuff ready for a full bottom end build. This is also my limiting factor at this point (besides clutch). I haven't decided what I want to do yet, but I'm leaving stock pistons as an option. If not, then I will not go below 9:1 CR. Rods will either be SCAT or IE. Then just need some bearings and such and I should be on my way.

This is where it really starts to get bad...I figure while I'm in the engine, I might as well start planning for dry sump. If I make any money this summer (I will), its probably all going to get drained by this endeavor. Cost comes mostly from the pump and I'm looking at $1000 to $1200 for that. Not nice.

So that's my list. I expect to get about two of those done, but no harm in shooting for the sky when you have patience ;) I think I've done alright with my goals so far in this project. I've accomplished everything I wanted to so far...typically 6 months to a year off schedule though. Seems that this is the way these things go unless money is not an issue and thats fine with me because I enjoy the ride. I think if I had enough money, I'd try and stretch the build out just for the fun of the anticipation and such. I haven't rambled like this in this thread for a while, so there's your dose!

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:44 pm
by 85oceanic
WOOT! Get to it!

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:08 pm
by jcarrick
Sounds like a great plan!

I have a few questions if you dont mind answering :P
Can you explain a surge tank and the need for one?
Why do you think its necessary to go dry sump?

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:32 pm
by loxxrider
Of course I don't mind answering.

A surge tank is analogous to a capacitor in an electrical circuit. If you go around a turn and the main tank sucks try for a second, the surge tank will take care of any fueling needs. I will be using it for that purpose, but actually more so to be able to run large fuel lines easily while retaining a stock fuel tank.

I want dry sump so I can rev above 8500 if/when I go solid lifter. It will also eliminate any oil sloshing problems that these engines are known for. (I know there are easier ways to go about that too) Stock oil pump doesn't like going above 8500 though apparently. Thats the main reason I want dry sump.

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:40 pm
by Mcstiff
Its also nice to create CC vacuum.

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:59 am
by jcarrick
loxxrider wrote:Of course I don't mind answering.

A surge tank is analogous to a capacitor in an electrical circuit. If you go around a turn and the main tank sucks try for a second, the surge tank will take care of any fueling needs. I will be using it for that purpose, but actually more so to be able to run large fuel lines easily while retaining a stock fuel tank.

I want dry sump so I can rev above 8500 if/when I go solid lifter. It will also eliminate any oil sloshing problems that these engines are known for. (I know there are easier ways to go about that too) Stock oil pump doesn't like going above 8500 though apparently. Thats the main reason I want dry sump.


Ah, alright that makes a lot more sense now. So you can keep the stock fuel pump and tank and then add the surge tank and bigger pump with -8 (?) lines?

Alright, thats what i figured. Dry sump will definitely be awesome!!

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:23 am
by ChrisAudi80
Chris, while you are into the engine, will you do some work on the head? Like gasket match the ports, high flow valves, Ti retainers and such? Seems like an idea if you are planning on serious power/rpm.

I would save the dry sump system for last.

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:17 am
by loxxrider
You got it J.

Chris, no I don't plan to do any head work yet. Its just way too expensive to fit into one summer since the head I want will have custom ground cams for solid lifters and of course solid lifters. Nothing wrong with running built bottom end with stock head while I try and max out the Holset, then just get another head gasket, and swap a built head on when I'm ready to rev high.

I'm not saying I'm going to get the dry sump on the car just yet. I will be at least making provisions for one/taking measurements for the design of a system while I'm in there though.

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:59 am
by ChrisAudi80
Not even a little gasket matching? I'm sure you will like the increased response and all. :D

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:12 am
by pkw
would you dyno the damn thing already? the suspense is killin me!

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:29 am
by ChrisAudi80
pkw wrote:would you dyno the damn thing already? the suspense is killin me!

:stupid: :lol:

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:06 am
by xileh
Sweet ride.
How much hp you estimate?

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:50 am
by loxxrider
haha I know sorry. Its damn hard to find a 4wd dyno around here and they are expensive to rent out. I gotta take advantage and tune it that day too so I gotta do some coordinating! I'd say its most likely to be spring break to be honest :( AKA sometime in March

xileh, I have no idea because its a heavy car. I'm pretty sure its somewhere in the 300's at the wheels, but its really hard to say exactly how much. If it was in a 3000 lb car, I'd say it was making low 3's at the wheels. Since its 3600 lbs, I'd say its gotta be mid 3's but what do I know. Not enough butt dyno experience! It also makes it hard since it comes on so smoothly. Its like the power is almost linear from about 3400 and up.

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:23 am
by pkw
just take it to the strip and tell us what the 1/4 mile trap speed is. that should do just as well as a dyno. come on, test and tune night at the local strip is cheap enough for a college student.

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:41 am
by Mcstiff
Borrow an i-Phone?

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:54 am
by loxxrider
ya BUT I need a clutch to go to the track. Stock clutch launching isn't happening in this car lol. I guess if I roll out it would still trap the same.

Ed, I've tried that app before...don't you have to launch to get a proper reading?

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:15 pm
by WOMBAT
loxxrider wrote:ya BUT I need a clutch to go to the track. Stock clutch launching isn't happening in this car lol. I guess if I roll out it would still trap the same.

Ed, I've tried that app before...don't you have to launch to get a proper reading?


you don't have to launch hard to get a good hp/tq reading. Just know that your 1/4mi time and trap speed will be lower due to the launch. It gave what I feel are very real numbers for when I used it on the A6

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:27 pm
by loxxrider
OK I'll try it

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:03 pm
by ChrisAudi80
Mcstiff wrote:Borrow an i-Phone?

:stupid:
Was thinking the same. There is a good app but I forget the name.
Dynolicious, maybe?
Or, do you know anyone with a G-Tech?

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:39 pm
by Mcstiff
Innovate has a logging app with a "Dyno" I have not tried any of the paid apps.

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:46 pm
by 85oceanic
Dynolicious is awesome. I have it. It's suppose to be fairly accurate, within a few horsepower of a mustang dyno.

Here is a review:


Link to video

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:50 pm
by loxxrider
Well I can plug some stuff into megalogviewer and get the hp and tq out. I need gear ratios

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:08 pm
by loxxrider
just so noone looks them up, I found them

type44 20v 200-1991 tranny case 016- torsen center differential
1st-3.600
2nd-2.125
3rd-1.360
4th-.967
5th-.730
final 4.11:1

Megalogviewer says I'm making like 450-500 lol but I dunno I need to go test it again.

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:44 pm
by ChrisAudi80
That would mean you are approaching rod replacement time, yes?

Re: Loxxrider's 200 20v: Running Awesomely again :)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:46 pm
by mxnhid
Get.....on.....a.....dyno....
I to am dying in suspense, i bet your safely 420 @ 21#s of boost. (atw's)