Loxxrider's 200 20v Revver: See you on "The Project Pad"

[loxxrider]

I really don't know what is happening on that front... apparently the engine and trans are already in the car for mock-up, but I don't think shifter or axles have been looked at quite yet.

[Marc]

we have plenty of urs4 linkage parts here for that part of the conversion but we haven't done anything with that yet, its still quite possible we'll be moving he driveline up or down a bit. right now we've got plenty of clearance up top, but may need to go back up slightly. the back port on the scavenge portion of the dry sump pan we wouldn't be able to get a fitting on. I may cut / weld / modify it so there is, though.

[123quattro]

amd is the best wrote:[/quote]

All this talk of RPM's...not to be negative but best of luck getting an 01E to even function at that kind of RPM. I can't keep an 01E together in my S4 @ 400awhp and 7,300 rpm with fresh syncros, collars, gears and all. Yes, I have a hatred for the damn 01E! One will still find it's way into my 200 eventually. Dreading the day, lol.[/quote]
Something is up with your car. I only have a 016 trans and I'm making more power and spin to 8200rpm. It shifts perfectly every time. Is your clutch dragging?

[amd is the best]

amd is the best wrote:

All this talk of RPM's...not to be negative but best of luck getting an 01E to even function at that kind of RPM. I can't keep an 01E together in my S4 @ 400awhp and 7,300 rpm with fresh syncros, collars, gears and all. Yes, I have a hatred for the damn 01E! One will still find it's way into my 200 eventually. Dreading the day, lol.[/quote]
Something is up with your car. I only have a 016 trans and I'm making more power and spin to 8200rpm. It shifts perfectly every time. Is your clutch dragging?[/quote]

My 016 shift perfect as well. I was referring to the 01E in my B5 that I have rebuilt several times.

[123quattro]

I know. I meant the 01E is a better trans and shouldn't be breaking repeatedly at 400whp.

[kenax]

amd is the best wrote:[/quote]

All this talk of RPM's...not to be negative but best of luck getting an 01E to even function at that kind of RPM. I can't keep an 01E together in my S4 @ 400awhp and 7,300 rpm with fresh syncros, collars, gears and all. Yes, I have a hatred for the damn 01E! One will still find it's way into my 200 eventually. Dreading the day, lol.

Awesome stuff in here though. Have you looked at any of the Precision stuff for a turbo?[/quote]

Hmm.. I havent had any problems whatsoever.. Could you describe more? Which clutch are you running?

[amd is the best]

I know. I meant the 01E is a better trans and shouldn't be breaking repeatedly at 400whp.

It's a very coin failure in the B5 S4 crowd. Most commonly, the 1-2 collar locks up. Likely due to grinding into 2nd gear because the syncro can't spin the gear up to speed fast enough. My transmission failures have always been the 3-4 collar, gears and syncros.

Yes, the 01E is much more stout as far as the shafts and gears are concerned however from my experience the 016 SHIFTS 1000x better.

Nothing has ever fully failed and has always got me home but would just need a rebuild. JHM just came out with upgrades carbon coated syncros that ill probably pick up for my spare 01E (which of course needs a rebuild).

amd is the best wrote:

All this talk of RPM's...not to be negative but best of luck getting an 01E to even function at that kind of RPM. I can't keep an 01E together in my S4 @ 400awhp and 7,300 rpm with fresh syncros, collars, gears and all. Yes, I have a hatred for the damn 01E! One will still find it's way into my 200 eventually. Dreading the day, lol.

Awesome stuff in here though. Have you looked at any of the Precision stuff for a turbo?[/quote]

Hmm.. I havent had any problems whatsoever.. Could you describe more? Which clutch are you running?[/quote]

It has happens numerous times on numerous setups.

Car was stock other than an APR chip. 3rd gear would crunch (grind) a bit if shifting spiritedly near redline.

Went APR stage 3, though changing the clutch setup would help the trans. Used a South Bend stage 3 (rs4 pp and full face feramic disk) on a Fidanza flywheel.

End of the season the trans was shot and needed a rebuild. Gears 3-4 were 99% impossible to get into. I went through the ENTIRE trans with a full rebuild kit, new 1-2 collar new 3-4 collar, new input shaft, new 1-4 gears.

Now I'm bulletproof... Or so I thought. Midway through the next season, 3rd gear crunching again. WTF. As the season progressed it only got worse.

End of that season, no time to rebuild that transmission this time. Picked up a "good" unit and also changed out my clutch to the South Bend stage 5, which finally ditched the self adjusting PP. Kept the Fidanza. This trans was shot right from the start. 3rd gear ground at any speed. Awesome. Drove it all that season babying it and/or skipping 3rd/4th to preserve the expensive gears inside.

I them proceed to money shift the S4 in November of 2010. Went from redline in 3rd to 2nd without an issue :(. Fidanza flew apart and went through the case.

Car sits for 1 year. I finally get motivation to repair it and rebuild that other trans I decided not to rebuild the previous time. Needed 3rd and 4th gears, 3rd and 4th syncros and a 3-4 collar. Sounds familiar.

All back together and still running to this day (only because it hasn't got beaten on once). 3rd gear still feels like shit.

That's my 01E hatred story.

[chaloux]

That's messed man. Something's gotta be wrong.

[Hank]

the b5 linkage is partly to blame. Having a floating box does not help the situation at all.

The c4 01e and the b5 01e share 99% of internals, with the only real differnece being in the tail shaft, away from the problematic parts. You hardly eve hear of 1-2 lockups on those transmissions, 3-4 issues, ect. I know the b5 crowd is pretty hard on shifting them hard, but you would think you would see more c4 failures if it was actually the trans.

That said, I have had 2 1-2 collar lockups on my linkage that mimics a c4 setup(without hte stabilizer bar).

I am really itching to use those syncros from JHM too. I probably will try 1-4. Seems a shame to throw 500 mile old updated syncros from the box Scotty built me. Another theory I have for why the collars and syncros suck in the 01e is not really their fault. I think half of the problem is the extremely wide spacing of the 01e, especially 1-2 and 2-3. 1st gear is WAY too short, and 2nd is just about where I would want it to be, and then 3rd is too tall coming from 2nd. If you shift at 8000 in first, revs will be at 4200 in 2nd. That is a big difference to ask a syncro to spin up to. 2-3(in a 1.23 3rd gear app) shifting at 8000 would leave you at 5250 rpm into 3rd. That is still a pretty big gap, but manageable.

Ideally, there would be a ~3.0:1 1st, 1.89 second, 1.32 3rd, .97 4th then the rest is go to jail speeds anyway That would require the syncros to match 3000 rpm at worse(1-2) and then 2000 rpm there after.

01e's are strong in the physical gear department as well as having a beefy case to hold the parts in and not flex. Some of the components inside are problematic. I do think that the transmissions do require a lot more break in than most people give them. Both boxes I have rebuilt and run have been uber notchy and noisy for the first 2000 miles. If one was to shift fast right out of the gate, I bet syncros would have a hard time.

I swear, the smoothest shifting 01e's I have used in my URQ(on number 6 now) are unknown mileage urS 5 speeds from Weldon. They just fit like a well used glove!

[ringbearer]

Trans #6!

Good work Hank, keep beating them up

[Justin517]

Just playing devils advocate here... but isn't it possible that the 01E in the B5 and C4 are essentially exactly the same from a reliability standpoint, and the linkage doesn't make much of a difference in that reliability... but the fact that a B5 is much much more common (how many B5 S4's were built? a butt-load compared the the UrS4/S6 I would think?) and that they are much more commonly modded and have turbo upgrades that easily make over 400whp (stage 3 is common) so the failure RATE is actually close to the same?

Just wondering.

I know a lot of BMW people always talk about how the newer Vanos V8 engines (1999-2003) have so many more chain guide failures than the early non vanos V8 (1997-1998) engines... but no one takes into consideration that the early engine was only produced for 2 model years while the late engine was produced for 4... so the ratio of failures to non failures is really about the same if not more for the earlier engine simply because they made less of them.

[Hank]

None of them were beyond repair except for the trans that Scott built me, but some of them required parts that were cost prohibitive to fix versus just buying a new one. My URQ is actually on transmission #12 ATM, thouse several of them have been swapped for ratio trials/desires.

To add to my post above, when you have a big turbo car that makes power above 4000 rpm, it requires an 8500 redline shift in 1st to be fast to 60mph, or in a drag racing senario. If you shift at 8500 and drop to 4200, you are back on boil. If you cut the party short at 8000, you will bog into second.

Compare that to the 200 trans, where if you shift at 8000 rpm(40mph) you will land back at 4750. The 200 has great ratios, just not quite beefy enough on the 2nd and 3rd gears.

Furthermore, people for the longest time rumored that the b5 rs4 had special 1-2 sliders because they didn't have the issues the b5 s4 boxes did. Well, in fact, they have the same parts, but they have a 1.32 3rd and a 1.07 4th, so they have closer spacing, resulting in proper syncro spin up, and consequently they don't have the hub issues.

My box I am putting together now will be 3.5-1.89-1.42-1.07-.86-.56 ratios with updated syncros and hubs. It is pretty expensive though, as I am scavenging parts from 3 different transmissions to make those ratios. I'd love to put it in a 3.89 TDI case, but I still need to sort an LSD able 3.89 rear diff.

Justin, that is a pretty good argument. They are the same amount of reliable, as they are the same transmission. Problem is that HP has little to nothing to do with the reliability of the transmission. It is a shifting mechanism design. Guys that swap 01e's into CQs and 90s run into the same problems as b5 s4 guys, as they use the b5 linkage in the b3. If it were indeed a sample size issue, I would think that the smaller population of swaped cq's would show no signs of transmission failures right?

[amd is the best]

Justin, that is a pretty good argument. They are the same amount of reliable, as they are the same transmission. Problem is that HP has little to nothing to do with the reliability of the transmission. It is a shifting mechanism design. Guys that swap 01e's into CQs and 90s run into the same problems as b5 s4 guys, as they use the b5 linkage in the b3. If it were indeed a sample size issue, I would think that the smaller population of swaped cq's would show no signs of transmission failures right?

Exactly. Power has very little to do with it. Stock power or 600+ (or whatever) if you mis-shift and grind the collar enough, that's the end of it. I actually destroyed 3rd gear one time in the S4 on APR's "stock" mode. lol.

I'm glad that the 6 speed shifter box I just picked up is the fixed style. I am going into this adventure with a positive attitude and look forward to shifting the 200 into 6th gear

[audifreakjim]

Anyone think heat has anything to do with it? Anyone log trans heat in an un cooled 01E on a track with a high hp car?

[ChrisAudi80]

Anyone think heat has anything to do with it? Anyone log trans heat in an un cooled 01E on a track with a high hp car?

Good point. If excessive heat is autobox death, why not for a manual?

[OOOOGT]

Porsche put coolers as an option on their 016/01E's so I'm sure they did it for a reason. And those engines are spinning 6-7k max

[Hank]

Again though, they put pumps and coolers in to cool the diff, not the sliders/shifting parts that fail. If it were chucking bearings and gauling gears, I would look at heat. They are just heavy cluncky components built to put up with a bunch of power on the 'bahn, but not shifting quickly.

[HT Motorsport]

Link to video

There's always a solution to such issues Just sayin'

(any excuse to post this video)

The Porsche turbo trans does have a cooler, as do all my cars, it also has massive teeth on the pinion and ring gear. A stock(ish) 01E will survive high RPM, but like any transmission if its treated harshly it wont like life for long. Straight cut gears and dogs plus an SQS shifter should be on your shopping list, but it wont make for a pleasant place to be for a DD, but then again 10K+rpm DD isn't really the goal here I am guessing, there are always compromises to be made on such 'out there' vehicles.

[loxxrider]

LOL nope, not really trying to use this for DD status. I'd like to be able to drive it wherever if I want to, but I have other modes of transportation to use if need be! I'm a glutton for punishment when it comes to driving though. I like to feel, hear, and be more involved with the car. I'm sure this will be quite engaging to drive when it's finished. I don't really want to hear the whine of straight cut gears all the time however. If that is what it takes to hold the power, then that is what it takes to hold the power. We'll see in time.

[death 4kqt]

i totally agree with above post. Love to hear feel, see smell any machine doing its thing...but god straight cut gears would be hard to swallow. That is a machine sound like I have trouble getting down with!

[RSCoupe]

Anyone think heat has anything to do with it? Anyone log trans heat in an un cooled 01E on a track with a high hp car?

I've got a temp sensor in my trans. I don't remember how hot is got, but it wasn't hot enough to concern me. It would also help if the car ran longer than it has recently...
A trans cooler is definitely a good idea for a track car (it's on my to do list).

[123quattro]

I wish someone made 1-5 straight cut gears and left 6 helical. You can get gears for a T5 like that. All the fun when you beat on it of straight cut, but not the noise during highway cruise.

[HT Motorsport]

I wish someone made 1-5 straight cut gears and left 6 helical. You can get gears for a T5 like that. All the fun when you beat on it of straight cut, but not the noise during highway cruise.

I have a box here built by Scott that is straight cut 1-2 and helical for the rest

[123quattro]

Nice! I bet that was spendy.

[HT Motorsport]

Nice! I bet that was spendy.

yes and yes, But you gotta pay to play.