91 200 20vt 870CC, Holset, VEMS, SHES ALIVE....AGAIN!

[iammrfancypants]

Link to my other project thread the B5 A4 4.2L V8 swap
http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50232



The girls hanging out together.





So little history. Picked this car up under a "intermittent" no start. When I was showed the car, didn't start. Great. He said it starts when the ecu is at room tempeture (like removed and kept inside), but it won't start if the ecu is cold. Also, "it sounds like the injectors and clicking too hard and it is getting plenty of spark and it is getting fuel". I didn't get that. I was told he replaced the RPM/Crank sensors with a known good used set. Don't really have the time to work on it right now but I said I would go out see if the damn thing has gas and put in the ecu and crank it. Fired right up. Awesome. Let it sit and I wanted to drive it around and see how she was.


Link to video

1) brake light stays on
2) e-brake cables are bad
3) brake bomb is bad
4) it misfires bad under 2,500 rpms when cold, after that normal driving it's fine
5) lifters tick when it is cold

That's my impression in the first 30 seconds of driving it.

Things I noticied during the drive that I don't like:
- It misfires heavy under boost almost ALL the time, which could be something as simple as plugs. I believe this to be ignition related because when it does it, I can smell fuel.
- Randomly it misfires and the car stutters really bad. One time it shut off at a stop sign. I was flooring the gas to make it go and she wasn't having it kept misfiring and just shut off. Started right back up after.
-Believe the radiator has a small leak small some smoke and smelled some coolant.

Video when it was misiring slightly under boost.

Link to video


Big issues:
When I was coming home from the drive this wear display center message came up (where it shoes temp warnings, etc etc). Where it looked literally like Kip was talking from Knight Rider. It beeped too like a message normally would. Then no more than 20 seconds later car just shut off. Would not start back up for anything. I felt the ecu and it was HOT i never felt an ecu while running but this thing felt way too hot in my opinion. When I had it plugged in, it wasn't resting in that bracket, does it use that for a ground by any odd chance? It's a silly question I know. I let the car sit for around 10 minutes I would say and it started back up and I finished driving it home.

So, if anyone would like to help me out with my issues that would be very greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[iammrfancypants]

Okay made some progress today with this thing. Ordered: fuel filter, air filter, ignition cap, ignition rotor, spark plugs (oem bosch). Installed these (also doing oil change and valve cover gasket, but not yet). Fired her up. Ran better seemed to get rid of the misfire. I am happy but the pedal doesn't seem right to me at all. I need to ride the clutch from a stop or else it bogs, hesitates and falls on it's face.

So I decide to clean out the throttle body with some spray and check the cable tension. Upon doing this. I notice that the TPS has been unplugged the whole damn time and theres a vacuum line just unplugged (line coming off the BPV). Well that would explain a lot of my issues since day 1. Button it all back together it feels great. Drive it and she has 0 issues. Amazing. I'm smiling ear to ear. I want to film a second gear pull just to show her off even though she is all stock.

She's just about warmed up ran her for about 8 minutes. I do a pull in 2nd and she shuts off at the top of 3rd. Flat on her face. Won't Start back up. I let her sit for 10 min, she starts back up. She runs for about 3 minutes and shuts off. Over and over. Once it gets to a certain temp. it shuts off. Odd. So I get her home.

I let her idle knowing what will happen. Here are my findings. When she shuts off and will not start back up she is not getting spark or fuel. I test for this by pulling out a wire and inserting a plug into the wire and looking for spark (did this on two cylinders). I checked for fuel by loosening the bolt on the rail and cranking it (nothing came out). My immediate conclusion is a crank sensor. Although I did not test cranking AC volts or resistance yet at the sensor. The PO also kept blaming the intermittent no start on the ECU. He replaced the crank/speed sensors but it appears that the issue is still there. I will go out and test the sensor tomorrow. I was just wondering what people thought about this issue before I went back out there. Or if this is a common issue I cannot find on the forums.

Oh, and some random pictures from one of the spots she broke down in haha.

[yodasfro]

I would be suspecting the crank sensors and or the hall sender in the distributor. Did you replace the rotor with the correct narrow tip rotor for the 3B motor? Nothing to do with the running not running issue just important to have. I'd also be having a look at the mechanical side of things timing marks>flywheel timing pin> FW ring gear teeth>distributor gear. I suppose it's possible the ECU is messed up only way to find out would be to try another ecu to see what happens.

[iammrfancypants]

I would be suspecting the crank sensors and or the hall sender in the distributor. Did you replace the rotor with the correct narrow tip rotor for the 3B motor? Nothing to do with the running not running issue just important to have. I'd also be having a look at the mechanical side of things timing marks>flywheel timing pin> FW ring gear teeth>distributor gear. I suppose it's possible the ECU is messed up only way to find out would be to try another ecu to see what happens.

I did replace it with the narrow tip rotor i made sure of it.
Looks like this one.

Ordered from germanautoparts.com . Here: http://www.germanautoparts.com/Audi/200 ... ical/176/1

Timing marks is another thing I did not think about. I will have to check this out. I'll have to find that link to line everything up with. I will pull the distributor but it seems like it is a pain in the ass after doing the cap/rotor. Is it as hard as it seems or no? Also I did source another ECU local from a forum member that I will be picking up.

[ursmkd]

without warming up the car and engine running put a heat gun on the ecu (dont go crazy now) and see if it does the same thing. if you need to borrow an ECU I got one

[yodasfro]

That's not the narrow tip rotor you can just file it down to 10mm. Correct rotor pn# is 1234332414
See this http://www.quattro123.com/Audi200DistributorRepair.htm
Removing the distributor I wouldn't attempt without removing the intake manifold.
You'll be able to inspect the gear on the dizzy when you do the VC gasket.
I'm not sure I'd try heating the ECU up with a heat gun. A crank sensor maybe as they fail when hot.

[iammrfancypants]

If I can check out the dizzy gear from the VC gasket and I have to do it anyway then yeah I'm not going to bother pulling it unless I see something wrong.

I will check timing also using this procedure: http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/trouble_s ... g.html#tim

I will apply heat to the crank sensor and heat to the ECU and see if this changes anything for either one.

Also I will love to take you up on that ECU offer. I was going to buy it off of you as you know but if I do not need it then yes it would be a waste of money. Although if I do need it, I'll be driving down to RI again and getting it from you ASAP haha. So I do appreciate the borrow offer you mentioned, thank you.

[iammrfancypants]

Okay some progress. Replaced my battery (just because it was bad, nothing to do with my issue) and purchased a good ecu from ursmkd (thanks again by the way) and the problem is still the same. So my next task is to find a new crank and rpm sensor. I want to replace both and I want them to be new. I'm going to start my quest but I haven't seen anyone carry these sensors new for a good price . Does anyone know where I can get these sensors?

Also, I will be doing my valve cover gasket tomorrow so I will inspect the dizzy gear and I will check timing also. So that will help me narrow it down. Hope it all goes well!

[yodasfro]

I believe the factory bosch crank sensors are NLA or very expensive new if you can find them. There are cheaper non-bosch sensors available aftermarket and on ebay might not be the best quality, though I've never tried one myself so I can't say for sure.

[iammrfancypants]

Yeah I'm finding a couple of aftermarket ones I might try. Found a couple on rock auto. Also there is a black connector and a grey connector, right? Because these look the same but are listed as crank and engine speed accordingly.

http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/x,carcode ... ensor.html

I was going to get the two "standard" sensors.

[yodasfro]

034905381A grey rpm
034905381 black ign. timing
But you can use two black or two grey as long as you label them. I'd also skip rockauto they can be had cheaper and you will likely be delivered what you ordered the first time from other parts suppliers. I checked autohausaz and they have FAE grey plugs for $52 not bad. The black plug is on back order and over $100
Ebay will get you a black plug who knows what brand for $30-$33 ea.

[iammrfancypants]

Hmmm thank you for this information. It is appreciated. But to be sure I am understanding you correctly, I can freely swap these sensors with no issues? So the black ones being backordered won't be an issue I can just get two grey and just make sure they connect on the harness where they should?

[yodasfro]

Correct the sensors themselves both do the same thing just color coded at the harness to make things easier. Not sure if the black or grey is what is back order if you search around a few other sites you get varying answers. So you may get a sensor that has a black plug or a grey plug but both work in either position.

[iammrfancypants]

Interesting. Also sorry to be a pain in the ass but can you link me to what you found on autohausaz? I looked around on their site I can't find a single listing for either sensor.

[yodasfro]

Sent you a pm with the link you just need to search their site using the pn#'s I posted up^there.

[iammrfancypants]

Just some random updates. I got those ebay crank/speed sensors in. Have not put them in. Just working through the engine bay replacing/removing/cleaning random shit to spruce things up. Pulled the VC gasket, about to pull the intake manifold now and do some work. Really just want to go through the engine and see what needs work and just make it look nice. It's been neglected too long and I want to see this baby in good shape. Definitely going to take some time and work but it will be worth it.

[iammrfancypants]

Nothing major, just some of the stuff I have ordered coming in. Also about to place a fairly large order with 034 to get some more stuff for this car. Hope to have her back on the road soon!

[iammrfancypants]

Sand blasted and painted my intake manifold. Looks so much better. Can't wait to bring down the rest of the pieces I want sandblasted so I can really get started on this.







This is what I started with too. Can't wait to completely turn the engine bay around and get it in great shape all stock so I can start to do upgrades.

[toml99]

I believe the factory bosch crank sensors are NLA or very expensive new if you can find them. There are cheaper non-bosch sensors available aftermarket and on ebay might not be the best quality, though I've never tried one myself so I can't say for sure.

I've been running the cheap ebay one's in my Lago and 5-speed for 3 yrs now or so and work great. One of the $120 one's I got from the dealer for Lago previously only lasted 2...Ha. With all the times the stock one's stranded someone, I doubt theres a such thing as a downgrade.....Bet your car is going to be just fine after replacing...Tom

[iammrfancypants]

Hah thats awesome. Thank you for that information I was unsure if anyone else has been running them.

Pulled some more parts off to get cleaned, sandblasted, and painted. I did the valve cover wrinkle black but it didn't wrinkle like I wanted it to. So I'm going to bring it down to bare metal and spray it silver or maybe polish it.





Oh and I am also doing a hydro to vac conversion on this while I have it all apart. Anyone know if I need to use the factory power steering resevoir and pump? Oh would it be a good idea to pull those parts from a donor car. My donor car is a C4 100 at a local pull it yard.

[yodasfro]

A 4k reservoir would be ideal right # of fittings and would point in the right direction. The C4 reservoir may work too but the angle of the fittings will likely be way off. You want the pump yes.

[iammrfancypants]

Thank you once again Austin! Always a great help. Only problem is probably trying to find a 4k reservoir.

[yodasfro]

Try Chris @ force5

[iammrfancypants]

Some more pieces I brought to the shop to sandblast.



Aaaaaaaand voila!

Already have the next batch of parts to bring down to the sandblast shop. Oh and I'm probably going to end up pulling the head off of the 200. I had a bad feeling about the water manifold but I did it anyway since I am trying to reseal/clean anything I possibly can on this thing. Anyway, broke two bolts on the water manifold. Plus it has high miles so I think I want to pull the head clean it up and have it freshened up. New valve guides, deck it, port it, shrug. Open to suggestions on what I should do when it is off however. Not looking to do anything crazy. Do want to source some 7A cams though.

[Kliminati]

Do want to source some 7A cams though.

Are you putting in a bigger turbo? if not, or later on, hold off on the 7A cams til then.....they do nothing for the k24.....