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copper intercoolers
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:33 am
by 90quattrocoupe
Just out of curiosity, considering the better thermal dynamics of copper vs aluminum, why is no one running a copper intercooler? I mean, you could have the same cooling of the intake air, but with a smaller footprint.
http://www.flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/store/Copper-Intercoolers/c300/index.htmlI obviously don't run an intercooler, but I do run a copper radiator. I have found it to be so much more efficient than a aluminum one. So I was just wondering.
Greg W.
Re: copper intercoolers
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:05 am
by PRY4SNO
I'd guess something to do with how glycol and copper oxidize?
EDIT
google wrote:Copper-brass alloy isn't as strong as aluminum, so its tubes are more susceptible to blowing out under even the relatively mild pressure generated by a cooling system. Building a copper-brass radiator with a larger, more efficient 1-inch tube diameter requires thickening the tube wall to 0.015 inch-twice as thick as is necessary on a 51/48-inch-diameter tube. That means the larger tubes weigh over three times as much as the smaller tubes-not good! The compromise comes from building the tubes out of aluminum. An aluminum radiator using 1-inch-wide tubes with 0.016-inch wall thickness is 60 percent lighter than the same copper-brass radiator. The 1-inch-wide tubes increase tube-to-fin contact and cooling capacity by roughly 25 percent over a radiator built with 11/42-inch tubes. The net result? Griffin claims that a two-row aluminum radiator with 1-inch tubes will cool as well as a five-row copper-brass radiator with 11/42-inch tubes. That frees up some extra room under the hood, and the two-row design allows less restricted airflow through the core. More air equals more cooling.
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Re: copper intercoolers
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:08 am
by 90quattrocoupe
PRY4SNO wrote:I'd guess something to do with how glycol and copper oxidize?
How does glycol affect an intercooler?
Greg W.
Re: copper intercoolers
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:12 am
by PRY4SNO
90quattrocoupe wrote:PRY4SNO wrote:I'd guess something to do with how glycol and copper oxidize?
How does glycol affect an intercooler?
Greg W.
Haha, I'll grab me coat...
Re: copper intercoolers
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:47 am
by 90quattrocoupe
You are forgiven. But polypropylene glycol has no adverse affect on copper.
Along the lines of copper intercoolers "The thermal conductivity of copper is 231 Btu/hr/ft. Aluminum has a thermal conductivity of 136 Btu/hr/ft. Copper is a significantly better heat exchange medium. "
Greg W.
Re: copper intercoolers
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:58 am
by elaw
I'd say weight, cost, and susceptibility to corrosion vs. the fact that the thermal conductivity of the intercooler material is so much higher than that of the fluids it's working with as to be pretty much irrelevant.
The thermal conductivity of aluminum is 237 W·m−1·K−1. The thermal conductivity of still air at 40 degrees C is 0.0271 W·m−1·K−1 - about 1/10000 that of the aluminum. Naturally you can get more heat into/out of air that's moving than still, but the challenge of getting the heat into or out of the air is still vastly greater than that of transferring it through a few tens of thousandths of an inch of metal.
Re: copper intercoolers
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:53 am
by lucidmatt
i'd be curious to see how, if at all, the green powdery oxidization on copper affects its thermal conductivity. IME in the marine field, corrosion and oxidization are excellent insulators both as both electrical and thermal barriers...
Re: copper intercoolers
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:03 pm
by audifreakjim
Science Smience. I am just happy Greg fixed his cooling problems with that S8 motor and now he can go to track events again. We need more cookies!
I might be doing copper as well for my new setup as I have to cut 2" off the stock radiator. I am going to start by trimming the leaking 2" from my Ron Davis, but if that doesn't hold up I have an old copper radiator that might get trimmed.
Re: copper intercoolers
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:33 pm
by loxxrider
lucidmatt wrote:i'd be curious to see how, if at all, the green powdery oxidization on copper affects its thermal conductivity. IME in the marine field, corrosion and oxidization are excellent insulators both as both electrical and thermal barriers...
That's what I'm curious about too, and I have a hunch that it makes quote a difference.
Re: copper intercoolers
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:46 pm
by audifreakjim
My copper radiator is painted black, most are from what I have seen. So if you have a black aluminum radiator and a black copper radiator, are they equal?
Re: copper intercoolers
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:37 pm
by loxxrider
Don't forget about internal corrosion
Re: copper intercoolers
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:19 pm
by alxdgr8
Besides weight/cost/corrosion, I'd also worry about fatigue especially if you had copper endtanks and not just a copper core. You'd want to make sure to have good engine mounts with adequate flex couplers in the IC piping to/from the intercooler.