The Project Pad

1200km != 2000mi

1200km = 725ish miles

Eric

I was kidding! :-)

But in all seriousness, it seems as the car sits now it's got about the same horsepower as stock but a 10+ improvement in MPG which is quite impressive. If the power can be increased without impacting the fuel economy much, it'll be that much more impressive.

Hello all,

sorry, my english is very bad :-(((( hahahhaha

WOOOOOOOOOOWWWWW
I did the nearly the same project, but I was the first :-)
I found this threat accidentally today... wow, did we had exchange of ideas?????

And it was more cheaper (but not so optically perfect like your project). And I did more modifications.
you can search "steftn" at google or http://www.tdituning.at" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (you have to registrate)., or see here (thats my registration document, i registrated the engine-conversion (V6 to 2,5 TDI) on 16.5.2011 in Germany):


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I used an Audi 80 B4 Quattro V6 2,8 AAH.

I put an AEL engine (140 hp from the audi A6 1997 Quattro) in it (without welding the 5-cylinder holders).
I don't wanted to weld on the caroche. I built own holders, so I can screwing the holders on the caroche (so I can use the original V6 Bolts).

I have 2 Air coolers serial (1st one from Audi S2 ABY, second one from Audi S2 3B).
To do that, i had to modificate the belt transmission (the original ael-engine has another belt-transmission system then the 1T). I took the system like the NG (133 hp, 5-cylinder) has: V-Belt (you can search in google: "Umbau Riemenantrieb AEL")

2 metal-watercoolers from 5cylinder serial (at the first time i only had one watercooler, i had heat problems, because of the big air-coolers in the front. Now, with 2 coolers it's no heat problem any more, i also use 71 degree thermostate and switch.)

battery-port in the front (the battery is in the cargo bay)

exhaust-gas-temperature display

-audi s2 3B frontspoiler (the original audi 80 B4 doesn't fit any more caused the aircooler)

-one-mass flywheel from audi NG with 240mm clutch disk (like audi s2, or Audi 90 with 7a engine) (its better for more power, but you will have more vibration in the gearbox)

6-Gear-Quattro-TDI Gearbox (DQT), self build holders. And you can use the original Audi A4 Quattro gear-linkage, it fits into the audi 80 without a modification and is more more cheaper than the expensive rs2 things.... But i have deactivated the procon-ten.
I used the original V6 flange assembly (but i shorted them a little bit)
And you don't need the rs2 cardan.... to expensive!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I used a Typ85 or Urquattro Cardan (1 Euro in Ebay). But only the front part! The back part is original audi B4 Quattro.
Rear diff was from a Audi 80 B4 Quattro with NG-engine (133 hp) because of the gear transmission ratio.

-AAB-intake (from VW-T4-Bus). It is longer than the AEL/AAT-intake, so you have more moment at low rpm

-selfmade holder for the engine rev counter
- oil wash-plate from the audi s4 AAN
- 7a oil pan
- oil cooler from audi s2 3b (adapter from audi 100 with mc engine with modification)

- modificated blow-by system

modificated TDI-pump (full mechanic, you only have to hang in the gas-rope and put 12V on the outlet), i don't need the electrical pump, its toooooo expensive and error-prome and to much modification in the audi 80). Tuning is very cheap, you don't need a computer, you need a screwdriver (and hardware, eg. 0.280 injectors and 12mm pump-piston).

Next steps (if i have enough money and time):
using Crafter engine (is more better for much power, has better bistons etc...)
see: http://www.tdituning.at" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (search: Tuningkolben AEL) but you have to registrate.
And building a free programmable common-rail-system (the crafter engine is a commonrail-engine, the engine-block is nearly the same, so you the crafter-injectors and high-pressure-pump fit to the ael)
Or: free programmable VP37 hard/software
And: 2 Turbocharchers in serial to get more boost
And: RS2 brakes
And: Put a Torsen-Diff from audi V8 in my tdi :-)
and maybe: 016-Gearbox modification (TDI-transmission) and front lock function
etc

ok here some pics, the conversion is legally registrated in germany (at 16.5.2011).
My problem was/is money and time!!!!!!!
I can only modificate in weekends or at night, so it isn't so easy for me...
So i had to do the best with that things I have.
I'm a poor student with nothing money. But i did it. And you see, its optically not very beautiful :-((( but it doesn't matter to me :-)
the important thing to me is power :-)))

(this are actually pictures, my air-intake isn't finished, i only tested the sound today, usually i use an air box to get cold air)

if you want more information or have question, let me know.

The project isn't finised, i'm always thinkering on it (but now only so much, that i can drive to the university :-) ):

may, someone would say it's botch, but give me the money and the time, i would make it better

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here you can see the modificatet V6 bar (i have 2 bars in the front, 1st is originally from audi with ng engine (but modificatet for the air-cooler-pipe) and the 2nd bar is an modificated one from the original v6 (now it goes under the ABY air-cooler, so this bar is the deepest point)Attachment:[/quote]
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battery in the back. I put the battery on the right side, there's a better place for it, than on the left side. (on the left side, there's a box to put tool in it, and i would miss the box if there is the battery now :-) )
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battery port (i think this one was from audi 100 or A6?? i don't remember, sorry):Attachment:[/quote]
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aab-air-intake:
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WOW, veryinteresting, unfortunately we don't have access to parts like you do, most of the cars needed to do this conversion never came to North America, the TDI Eurovan, S2/RS2, AEL AAT or ABP or 1T... :(
More pics would be appriciated, I like the intake manifold.. but why the problems with cooling?
I've been running one radiator and it's running so cool now I think I will have issues in the winter time, not enough heat to warm up the interior.
Yes, I also used the typ 85 front part of the driveshaft (cardan) and rear B4. I was worried about possible vibration if the assembly is balanced together, but so far so good.
I am however having issues with oil pressure, I connected oil pressure gauge and only getting 1/2bar at idle and only 2bar at 2000rpm.
It is good enough to pass the min spec, but that's the lowest I've seen on an I5.
Strangly the TDI oil pump is different (Part number) than any other I5 offered over here so I am not sure if I can use any generic pump.
From the outside they look the same, but clearly the part number is different for some reason.
Anyone know?

Cheers

ralleyquattro wrote:I am however having issues with oil pressure, I connected oil pressure gauge and only getting 1/2bar at idle and only 2bar at 2000rpm.
It is good enough to pass the min spec, but that's the lowest I've seen on an I5.
Strangly the TDI oil pump is different (Part number) than any other I5 offered over here so I am not sure if I can use any generic pump.
From the outside they look the same, but clearly the part number is different for some reason.
Anyone know?

Cheers

the oil-pumps are all the same, look:

http://audidrivers.de/viewtopic.php?f=1 ... e&start=10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... e&start=10

when i rebuilt my tdi engine, i disjointed both pumps (one from tdi and one from petrol)

the outside of the petrol-engine-oilpump is different to the tdi-oil-pump.
the petrol-engine-oil-pump has an extra gate to protect the belt.
The tdi-pumps don't have this gate, instead this, they have a blank sheet.

At my tdi, I modificated it so, that you can change the cam belt without removing the pulley, look:
http://forum.group44.de/viewtopic.php?t ... &p=1322542" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... &p=1322542
(you only have to make two pieces of your blank sheet which protects your cam belt)

The TDI-oil-pump also fits on the petrol-5-cylinder...

i drive with the maximal boost of the turbo (K14, 1,5 bar) and more injection, so the tdi gets hotter with that boost. Because of the front-air-cooler, the airflow to the watercooler is not so good, that was the reason to install 2 aircoolers (my aim is to get over 250 hp)....

more pics:
here you can see the 2 bars (on the top the bar from audi 90 with ng-engine, under a modificated v6 bar)
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the water connector on the tdi-block is from audi urquattro/audi coupe b2 with 5cylinder. It's not the same connector like the audi 80/90 NG-connector. I used that to use 2 watercoolers:
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another picture from the aab-intake (it also fits on the petrol 20vt-Engine (like Audi 100 turbo or urquattro 20v):
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modificated tank-intake without the butterfly:
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exhaust from audi 100 20vt (it looks like the exhaust from audi a6 tdi, was requested by the german tüv):Attachment:[/quote]
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selfmade exhaust pipe and gearbox-holder:
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my selfmade oil-cooler holder and right engine-holder (i didn't welded on the body, nothing):
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left engine-holder (the yellow thing is a garden hose to protect the battery-cable to the starter-engine/generator):
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this big pipe is my crankcase ventilation (only a pipe which goes from the valve cover connection under the car and than to the nature :-) :
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Thanks for sharing the pics and info.
I tried another sensor just now and it looks much better, now I have peace of mind that the pressure is fine.
Cheers

ähm, Martin, you use an one-mass-flywheel, right? And which friction? Because the gearing of the 016-gearbox and the 01E-gearbox aren't the same, how do you solved the problem?

i used the one-mass-flywheel from the petrol NG-engine.


Do you use an electrical fuel pump?

I don't use a fuel pump because the tdi-injection-pump is self-priming.
But now, I have the problem, that my tank doesn't goes completely empty.
Because in the German version of the Audi 80 B4 quattro-tank, there are 2 regions with another fuel-niveau.
There is a eductor in the return of the fuel-tank. But my tdi-injection-pump hasn't so much return-quantity than the original electrical petrol-fuel-pump to let the eductor work....

so a little amount of fuel stays in the tank....

I am using the AAT setup, flywheel and clutch, all stock OEM.
I still have the electrical pump, but I have an H connection just before the main filter to reduce the pressure.
Also had to eliminate the stock gasoline fuel filter.
Works well so far.. we'll see how the pump will like the -25C diesel fuel in the winter time..

ralleyquattro wrote:I am using the AAT setup, flywheel and clutch, all stock OEM.

what means OEM? One elementary mass?
how big is the aat-friction? 240mm?
and it fits really to the 01E-Gearbox-input-shaft?

I still have the electrical pump, but I have an H connection just before the main filter to reduce the pressure.

I also thougt about that.
Now, my setup is like a tractor, you don't need a battery to run the engine (mhm, only a small battery to hold the pump-valve open, but you can use the valve from the vw-marine-engines, there you don't need 12V to let the injection-pump work, you only need 12V to park the pump the function is reverse.....)

steftn wrote: what means OEM? One elementary mass?
how big is the aat-friction? 240mm?
and it fits really to the 01E-Gearbox-input-shaft?

OEM means Original Equipment Manufacturer
I used Sachs clutch.
Stock AAT flywheel has a pilot bearing for the 01E and it is 240mm.

Cheers

ralleyquattro wrote:

steftn wrote: what means OEM? One elementary mass?
how big is the aat-friction? 240mm?
and it fits really to the 01E-Gearbox-input-shaft?

OEM means Original Equipment Manufacturer
I used Sachs clutch.
Stock AAT flywheel has a pilot bearing for the 01E and it is 240mm.

Cheers

one mass or two mass flywheel?
e.g. AEL has two mass flywheel...

do you have the part number of it?

thanks :-)

steftn wrote:one mass or two mass clutch?

do you have the part number of it?

thanks :-)

Single mass... don't know the part number.
It came on 1991-96 A6 2.5TDI with AAT engine.



I needed it because of the 5 cutouts for the computer.
Since you don't have a computer you can use an S2 or 7A flywheel which are also 240mm and will allow use of 01E.

Cheers

ralleyquattro wrote: I needed it because of the 5 cutouts for the computer.
Since you don't have a computer you can use an S2 or 7A flywheel which are also 240mm and will allow use of 01E.

Cheers

yes, i know. I'm using the ng flywheel with 7a clutch-disk (German: Reibscheibe). But now, I have more vibrations in the gearbox.
Bevore that, I had the two mass flywheel and there was no vibration.
Do you have vibration in your gearbox?

So i want to know, which clutch-disk you use. I think AAT clutch-disk, right? But which one? Do you know the part number?
Because that friction which you use is expectially for tdi-engines with one mass flywheel and I don't know the part-number of it.
My clutch-disk is from a petrol engine, and thats not the same clutch-disk like from the tdi-engine, so it maybe causes vibrations....

Single mass has only the early Audi 100 with AAT, its very rarely. Almost they have two mass flywheel.

yes, i know. I'm using the ng flywheel with 7a clutch-disk (German: Reibscheibe). But now, I have more vibrations in the gearbox.
Bevore that, I had the two mass flywheel and there was no vibration.
Do you have vibration in your gearbox?

Not to hijack, but on my 2.4 IDI diesel, I have a 7A flywheel, and the gear chatter is horrible. That's one reason I hope to switch to a dual mass flywheel in the next month or so. I'm glad to hear that the dual mass flywheel worked better. This post is the first confirmed indication that it will.

steftn wrote:Do you have vibration in your gearbox?

So i want to know, which clutch-disk you use. I think AAT clutch-disk, right? But which one? Do you know the part number?

Single mass has only the early Audi 100 with AAT, its very rarely. Almost they have two mass flywheel.

7A flywheel might be too light to absorb the spikes.

Clutch kit was:
- VALEO - VAL821236 / 821236
- LUK - 624 0836 00 / 624083600
- AUDI 046 198 141 X
- VW 046 198 141 X

AAT/ABP all used single mass flywheel, only AEL used dual mass.
Also, the early 2.8 V6 B4 and C4 used the single mass with the above clutch kit.

Flywheel part numbers for AAT/ABP are
046 105 269 H as per ETKA or
046 105 271 F on my flywheel

http://www.vagcat.com/epc/cat/au/A100/1 ... 9/1209441/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 9/1209441/

From what I have seen dual mass is the best for diesel application, unfortunately I am using full TDI equipment and there is no dual mass flywheel with 5 timing windows

HTH

BlackBox wrote:

yes, i know. I'm using the ng flywheel with 7a clutch-disk (German: Reibscheibe). But now, I have more vibrations in the gearbox.
Bevore that, I had the two mass flywheel and there was no vibration.
Do you have vibration in your gearbox?

Not to hijack, but on my 2.4 IDI diesel, I have a 7A flywheel, and the gear chatter is horrible. That's one reason I hope to switch to a dual mass flywheel in the next month or so. I'm glad to hear that the dual mass flywheel worked better. This post is the first confirmed indication that it will.

Wow.. nice build!

BTW if you need I have two 2.0TD injection pumps in great shape, one was rebuilt.
They are collecting dust, I thought of going mTDI but that itch is gone and they are collecting dust.

Oh yeah, and I have the typ 44 TDI airbox as well.

Cheers

Wow.. nice build!

BTW if you need I have two 2.0TD injection pumps in great shape, one was rebuilt.
They are collecting dust, I thought of going mTDI but that itch is gone and they are collecting dust.

Oh yeah, and I have the typ 44 TDI airbox as well.

Thanks Martin. I actually just picked up a NOS pump from Canada, but thanks for the offer. I have a friend who might be interested though.

I'm the one who contacted you a few weeks ago about the air box. I'm now thinking I still might need it. I'll let you know.

BlackBox wrote:

yes, i know. I'm using the ng flywheel with 7a clutch-disk (German: Reibscheibe). But now, I have more vibrations in the gearbox.
Bevore that, I had the two mass flywheel and there was no vibration.
Do you have vibration in your gearbox?

Not to hijack, but on my 2.4 IDI diesel, I have a 7A flywheel, and the gear chatter is horrible. That's one reason I hope to switch to a dual mass flywheel in the next month or so. I'm glad to hear that the dual mass flywheel worked better. This post is the first confirmed indication that it will.

But the two-mass-flywheel not hold a lot of torque.
For the original engine, it's ok, but if you want more power (e.g. over 200 hp) you should use the one-mass-flywheel. It's more stable.

ralleyquattro wrote:AAT/ABP all used single mass flywheel, only AEL used dual mass.
Also, the early 2.8 V6 B4 and C4 used the single mass with the above clutch kit.

In Germany, only the early AAT have single mass. Usually AAT and AEL all have dual mass.

From what I have seen dual mass is the best for diesel application, unfortunately I am using full TDI equipment and there is no dual mass flywheel with 5 timing windows

HTH

The early AAT or the AEL or D5252T (AEL in Volvo) have a sheet with 5 timing windows mounted on the crankshaft, so they don't need a flywheel with 5 timing windows (there is a drilling in the block where a hall sensor is mounted).

Where is this "sheet" mounted, ETKA only shows one part number for the 1991-94 AAT/ABP flywheel, no other options.
From 1995 it shows dual mass flywheels only.

wait, i will make a photo....

edit: it's dark now in Germany, so the pictures aren't so good.

Well, here is an D5252T-engine from Volvo, look:
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(its the same like AEL, only other pipes for the turbo, but the engine-block is the same):
This hall-sensor is mounted nearly the 5th cylinder.
The newer AAT and all AEL use this system (and maybe all VW T4 2,5 TDI engines, they also fit in the audi :-) ):

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The oil pump (its the same system like AEL):
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Tadaaaaa, the common-rail-crafter-holder fits on the TDI-block:
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Crafter: SSP 371




And take a look to the VW-Marine-page:
http://www.vw-m.de/index.php?id=9&L=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can also use Marine-parts for your project, like this (aircooler):

By the way, at first, I used the big audi S2 3B airbox. The original suction from AEL fits to the air-mass-meter from the audi s2 3b.

This system isn't so conspicuous for the police :-)

At last, I used the originally V6-Airbox with inverted cover and own build connector.

Thanks for the info! ETKA has nothing like this in the catalog... I wonder why I can't see it.
Did I mention you are lucky! I wish I had easy access to all these parts.

Cheers

....and maybe if you want a free-programmable system, you could use this thing:



look: http://audidrivers.de/viewtopic.php?f=3 ... 6&start=80" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 6&start=80

Looks like the adjustment helped, just went through a tank after adjustment and numbers are in.
875km on 47L, which equates to about 5.4L/100... if I went through the entire 65L tank I would have been able to go 1200km (745mi).
Not bad... still waiting for that chip... (Pawel, you reading this?

Cheers